[Taco]

================
Rolken's Things to do list
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Videos
Unidivision
Score & Ring values
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

The Color System

Red: Highest Priority! Do this ASAP!
Orange: High Priority. Will help the site out much. do this soon
Yellow: Contributes to the site in some way. Complete these if you can
Green: Mostly consists of small features that make the site a slightly better place.
Blue: The least important of em all. Usually just cheap stuff.Only do this if everything else is cleard off the list.

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Videos
- Basically, just get all the videos on the site back up...

Unidivision
- There can only be one red...vids are higher priority then this though. Once vids are done, BAM, this turns red. You know what to do though...this also must be done ASAP

Score & Ring values
- We need to give score and rings a value of some sort on TSC. I forget if we've resolved the issue or not...so ignore this for the time being. I'll take this off the list if we haven't reached an agreement yet

Update. I know we are probably missing a few things so lemme know if I overlooked something and I'll edit it

[yse]

Heh, percentages deserve more than that. Who needs ring/score values anyway? We're all about speed here. c:

And for unidivision, when you said two days ago did you really mean two years ago? =P

[magnum12]

I believe moving the team blast glitch to freestyle was one of the things on the to do list. Regarding rings and score, score should definately have some weight. This is especially true for Sonic Adventure, SA2B, and Sonic Heroes where score is really important and should have as much weight as time. The 2D games score weight should be .5x-.75x. As far as rings go, they should have .25x at max since they're not really that important.

[General Throatstomper]

Eh, Time Machine?What is that supposed to be? Can you see the rankings as they were on a certain date or something? Oh, and a clearing out of certain fake times *coughgoalies* is also in order, though that can't be changed for a little while because the ranking script is screwy.

[Taco]

I dont think we should worry about goalie as of now.

I made this list mainly because there were a lot of "big" projects that Rolken never got around to doing. So just as a reminder, I made this

but perhaps when this checklist gets cleared, we can focus on the smaller details such as banning someone, fixing up a small script error, modifying a time/score, etc.

As for your question Blueblaze, you pretty much answered it. Rolko said he'd make a time machine, but never got around to it. :( Had he not spoke of it so much, I probably would of forgotten about it as well, but he made me look forward to the creation of it, and I await till this day for it to be completed!

Besides, I want to see all those fake times you posted during your advance 2 reign of terror!

[General Throatstomper]

Besides, I want to see all those fake times you posted during your advance 2 reign of terror!

[snapback]5614[/snapback]

[/quote
I did that for 2 reasons. I wanted to see if soniccenter could actually tell if times were fake, so I just threw in a bunch of random times, and figured that if I was caught lying, there would probably be a pattern for fake times that would be recognisable. Based on this pattern, I wouldn't seem retarded if I accused somebody of lying in Leaderboard Disputes. Oh, and I also just wanted to see my name as 100% champion for a game :P

[Taco]

ya I know, I just wanted to know the exact times for curiosity

[magnum12]

I'm adding this post to re-establish the TSC things to do list that was lost when the site went down. Here's what I remember being on the list.
1. SA3 Unidivision. (I have no idea what this will do.)
2. Time Machine
3. Score and Ring weight changes.
4. Percentages
5. Fix ranking script.
6. TBG moved to Freestyle.
7. Sonic Battle Time Attack division. (Ask sonicam about this. Note: We will need to make the use of Emerl's combo move be freestyle if this is added.)
8. Stuff for Sonic R. (Ask Sprint about this.)
If anyone remembers some of the other stuff that was on the list, add it here.

[Taco]

Ah yes...

We must pester Rolko until the list is complete

which will be....NEVA!!! MWUAHAHAHA!

[sonicam]

Yes, these things are indeed long over due, but it's understandable since reviving TSC was a task itself, improvements were the least of Rolk's worries, but it is time to start to "make TSC better". Unfortunately only recently, I broke my Sonic Battle game (making me unable to restore my old scores) but I still do have the Sonic Battle Time Division plans still fresh in my brain (somewhat), so if you still need them, Rolk, I'll be glad to just in case you lost the one I gave you though E-Mail awhile back.

Also:

9. Sonic Drift 1 and 2 Lap Times
10. Sonic Labyrinth competition?

[sonicam]

Making Score earn weight would add variety to TSC. Sure this is were all the best Time Attackers for Sonic game go and compete, but there should be a variety to the different things one can compete in. Score attacking can take as much skill as Time Attacking if the right game is being used as an example. Sonic Heroes, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are three game that I think Score Attacking is just as difficult/skill worthy as Time Attacking. Also, he isn't a lone member on this. He just simply brought back the list that was made back when TSC went down and the list was more detailed and had more things and this was one of them. Also, mike agrees with me on this one (I remember his post) that score should have just as much weight as time in the new generations games (the 3 I mentioned before) as they are rather useless in 2D games since it is indeed another Time Attack (I somewhat agree). Yes, TSC is the home of the Sonic Time Attackers, but still, variety is a good thing and the more you offer, the more members will come.

Ok, I see where you are going with Knux/Rouge Mission 1. Yeah they are indeed on luck, but as SM said in the chat, there is skill involved, just a different kind of skill, which is very true, this goes for my eariler response about Score, it's just another type of skill. The luck aspect of Mission 1 can render another more "unlucky" player (such as my self :X) to be at a slight disadvantage, but still. Say you get a perfect Emerald location combintion? The average player would most likely get a worse time then a more experience player, would they not? Knux and Rouge do take skill to master. No, the aren't Sonic/Shadow or Tails/Eggman and they aren't speed running the level to the goal, but are finding items in the fastest time possible. All in all, it's a different type of skill, but skill is still involved, so it deserves a spot here.

[SadisticMystic]

I stand by my analogy about K/R 1s:
<_> In GoldenEye, there's the Facility level, in which one of the objectives is to find Dr. Doak.
<_> There are 6 possible locations he can be in.
<_> The top players simply check the one location that's the least divergent off the main path, and if he's not there, they restart.
<_> Even so, getting Dr. Doak in the right location doesn't automatically get you a 47-second time.
<_> Yet there's no cry that Facility should be removed from the rankings because it's based on luck.

[CosmicFalcon]

I vote that K/R 1s stay. I mean, if the game gives those levels Mission 4s, which require you to act faster, then why not go a step up and see who can do it fastest?

As for the weightings, before TSC went down it was an issue mostly past the discussion phase and more in the "When will Rolk be able to work on TSC D:" phase. They were going to be included but have a weight less than times, and rings having less weight still. I believe at some point SM came up with some reasonable ratio, but I might have imagined that.

[Bilan]

iirc, it was 75:25 Times:Scores.

But I'm probably wrong.

I'd also liek to see Score's having some sort of weight, at least in Heroes and SA2:B, where Score is REQUIRED to unlock everything.

In some cases, a high score can be ever more difficult than a fast time. showing that there is a definative skill around getting high scores.

[Taco]

SM

don't forget Frigate and how much of a pain in the ass it is with the hostages

although all of their locations are always the same, the level is still based on luck

[Bilan]

It should all be kept as one, and have an overall champ, that'd  be much fairer, as no-one excels at absolutely everything IMO, and besides, get 150K on CW5 and a Perfect Ring Count on CG5 and say that didn't take skill before you say there worthless.

Also, Andy, K/R M1 is not solely based on luck, it takes skill and creativity to get to some of the emerald locations in the fastest possible time.

[Taco]

I'm really not sure about the whole champion thing. Don't know which side to take really >_>

I want to debate about K/R M1 though :O

There are a few valid reasons why I see these stages should stay in the rankings and count like any other time record. I suck at explaining things however, so stay with me here!

1. Seperating Knux and Rouge stages from the rankings would not follow the way TSC system works. If you notice, We more or less keep track of times and scores the way the games do. Knux and Rouge stages may be different, but they are still stages, just like sonic, shadow, tails, and eggman's stages :O. So theoretically, the rankings should stay.

2. Rolken would be doing something contradictory if he did remove the Knux/Rouge stages from rankings. I remember When we decided to use Unidivision for Sonic Advance 3, I asked Rolken if we could just rename "Sonic & Tails" to "Unidivision" and keep the times. Obviously, the times would get replaced because some combos are better for some levels. Rolken said he didn't want to do this though because all the work that people put in with Sonic and Tails would just be destroyed by better times used by better combos for a certain level...you know what I mean :O. Basically, it's the same case here. Poor SM has worked extremly hard on those times. It would be most unfortunate for SM to lose 60+ hours of work and dedication in a mere 6 seconds (or however long it takes to seperate that stuff >_>)

3. I think it's rather unfair that Knux/Rouge should be removed just because they are based on "luck".  Luck is a factor of speedrunning that you really can't control, but it's everywhere! Even if you had a "perfect run" where you did everything the way you planned it to, it still could of been based on luck. Maybe you were lucky that mommy turned up the air conditioner a little higher then usual, so your hands didn't sweat as much, and you were able to get a firmer grip on the controller! Who the hell knows! Besides that, luck exists inside the game as well. Sonic games are filled with luck! Think about it, all the timed moving objects in the game, especially the casino levels. In some of the games, you can get around this obstacle by researching the level. Exploring it, finding where and when the platforms move, etc. Even if you do manage to know where every single moving item is and how they all work, a good amount of luck is required because you can't really control how fast these items and obstacles move. You just have to hope that (according to your calculations) X bumper and Y block will be in just the right spot for you when you reach area Z. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.Some can argue that it's still skill because it is the player who ultimately controls how fast sonic might reach area Z. If you can't reach area Z at the right moment, then it's your fault. But how much skill do you have? Emulated times are much faster then human times. It's because we aren't skilled enough, but it may also be because it's humanly IMpossible. I dunno, I dont want to really get into details of emulation since I'm not an expert on it, but I hope you sort of see my point. We have to hope that sonic runs down this alley at the right speed so that when we reach area Z, bumper X and block Y will be in positions that will aid sonic to go through the level faster. I know that this is just a really really small example, but I go through a shitload of this when playing Casino Paradise 1 and 2. Don't even get me started on the boss for that zone...But like SM, I have explored and researched the level. I know the two casino levels back to front like SM knows Security Hall and Death Chamber. Everytime I play Casino Paradise 2, I hope that this 1 slope I land on doesn't make me speed up. Sometimes when sonic falls onto the slope, he takes it slow and I can make it through this small gap between two bumpers. But sometimes sonic apparently speeds up like crazy as soon as he hits the slope, so he ends up hitting the bumper and backtracking, thus totally ruining my run. Supposing I manage to get through that, I have to still face a few more obstacles, and lets not forget a boss fight that is 100% random! You can see how much of a pain in the ass it is for me, yet I still continue to play the level because I want to. SM sort of has the same situation. He knows how everything works, and where all the emeralds/keys/shards are, but he just has to wait for everything to click together before he can gnab another WR. The rankings shouldn't be taken out just because some people are too lazy.

4. There is some skill involved. I mean, it's not like you start the level and have all three pieces spawn in a straight line and you just walk right through all of them. You're still going for em as fast as you can which could involve a number of obstacles! Doesn't it take skill to get over these obstacles?

ya...so in conclusion, I'm bad at explaining things, and #3 is realy long with lots of rambling, but I really don't see why Knux and Rouge should be taken out!

[sonicam]

Very nice post and good analogies. I completely agree.

[SadisticMystic]

Go to The Elite's GoldenEye board and petition that Facility be removed from the rankings because it's based on luck.  I dare you.

[CosmicFalcon]

The argument is not that the emerald locations aren't based on luck, because they are. The argument is that completing the level in a record time is not solely based on luck, there is skill required.

Say for Mission 3s, there were multiple Chao spawning points. Would you suggest that mission 3 was removed from the rankings, because you could reset to get the optimal one? No, because there is still the same skill involved in traversing the level to reach that optimal one.

... Yeah, best analogy I could muster. <.<

[Bilan]

Ninty, you just won the topic. Well said, I fully agree :D

[Taco]

ok, a few advance 2 things need to be fixed up

1. It's egg Totem, not egg golem :(

2. Maybe the rankings could be re-ordered? don't know if that's hard or not...but...it's annoying going back and forth from the gameboy to the pc only to find out the order the game lists the character's times is different from the way TSC does it. Not the end of the world...but it could help :D. Maybe if it only takes 5 seconds you could change the order rolko? :O

[magnum12]

"2. Maybe the rankings could be re-ordered? don't know if that's hard or not...but...it's annoying going back and forth from the gameboy to the pc only to find out the order the game lists the character's times is different from the way TSC does it. Not the end of the world...but it could help :D. Maybe if it only takes 5 seconds you could change the order rolko? :O"
-I agree, especially with the boss sections of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. They need some reorganizing (primarily by order in which they occur in the story or by character). Something that I've always wanted to see (but of very little importance overall) is a section in which our records are compared to other Sonic competition sites from Japan and other sections of the world.

[Rolken]

Luckily, the way it's designed it really doesn't take much time. Which game needs reordering? (and for SA1/2, what order?)

edit: also links to other sites plz :o

[Taco]

ok um, well sonic advance 2 and sonic adventure need re-ordering apparently >_>

If there are any others, then we need to be notified of it :O

What I'll do is update the list with descriptions of what to do exactly for each thing to do (like my funky old list which is gone now :( )

so you can just chill out for a while...The list should be updated by tomorrow

[sonicam]

Yeah, this would be much more convienient and much obliged, Rolk. I have a suggestion in which they should be in character order and I put down the details below. For Sonic Drift 2, I suggest Grand Prix order. So you don't have to go look up you SA(DX), I put the level order too. :D Everything is color coded too. :) [EDIT] Amy is pink now. --The Mysterious Editor

:( I hope this helps you out Rolken.

Sonic Adventure (DX)

Sort out the all Times, Bosses, Scores and Rings by character instead of how you did it before. Put in the order of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and then Gamma. Then for Sonic, put in this order as it appears on Trial Mode: Emerald Coast, Windy Valley, Casinopolis, Ice Cap, Twinkle Park, Speed Highway, Red Mountain, Sky Deck, Lost World and then Final Egg. For Tails, put in this order: Windy Valley, Casinopolis, Ice Cap, Sky Deck, and Speed Highway. For Knuckles, put in this order: Speed Highway, Casinopolis, Red Mountain, Lost World, and Sky Deck. For Amy, put in this order: Twinkle Park, Hot Shelter, and Final Egg. For Gamma, put in this order: Final Egg, Emerald Coast, Windy Valley, Red Mountain, and Hot Shelter. One modification for the Races for completeness, change Gamma with Big so the order is Sonic - Tails - Knuckles - Amy - Big - Gamma.

Sonic Drift 2
[/u]
Sort out the times in Grand Prix order. Starting with Purple, White and then Blue. For Purple, put in this order: Emerald Hill 1, Hill Top 1, Dark Valley 1, Casino Night, Desert Road 1, and Iron Ruin. For White, put in this order: Desert Road 2, Rainy Savannah, Ice Cap, Hill Top 2, Mystic Cave, and Emerald Hill 2. For Blue, put in this order: Dark Valley 2, Quake Cave, Ballon Panic, Emerald Ocean, Milky Way, and Death Egg.

sonicam imagines that this isn't the optimal way to orginize the charts and this post was for naught. :( I hope it is.

[Taco]

ooh
very useful post :D

I'll just copy and paste what you typed forteh description, and steal your idea for sonic advance 2

I'll finish this all up tomorrow. Thanks for helping out soniham :D

[sonicam]

K, cool. No problem Ninty. :D

[SprintGod]

Sonic 2 (GG/MS)

Unlike on the GameGear, the Master System version leaves the timer visible throughout boss fights. This means Act 3 times can be tracked for this game.

The GameGear version hides the timer, but you can still find your time to a certain degree from the time bonus it gives you. You can also use it to double check your time on the MS version if the timer leaves the screen before you read it.
Time ..... Bonus ... Reduction for each extra second
0:00 ... 300,000 ......... 0
0:21 ... 250,000 .... 50,000
0:25 .... 90,000 .... 10,000
0:30 .... 39,000 ..... 1,000
1:00 ..... 9,900 ....... 100 every 5 seconds
1:50 ....... 100 ......... 0
X:00 ... For each extra minute, subtract 1,000 from the 1:XX time
X:50 ... All X:5X times over a minute are worth 100 points
9:59 .... 50,000

Sonic R

The PC version (and probably the one in the upcoming Gems Collection) keeps track of the following records for each of the 5 courses:
Grand Prix

• Course Record
• Lap Record

Time Attack (Normal)

• Course Record
• Lap Record

Time Attack (Reverse)

• Course Record
• Lap Record

Get 5 Balloons
Tag 4 Characters

The game also keeps each character's times separate:

• Sonic
• Tails
• Knuckles
• Amy
• Robotnik
• Metal Sonic
• Tails Doll
• Mecha Knuckles
• Egg Robo
• Super Sonic

That adds up to 400 records. It needs to be decided which of those to add to the site, and how they should be weighted towards the rankings.[/list]

[magnum12]

-Although I haven't played Sonic R yet, I believe the best course of action regarding those records should be to add the grand prix and time attack (both groups) and see if anyone wants the others to be added at less weight than the three I mentioned.
-Here's the info on the TBG issue based on what stages it can affect. *= possible but unsure.
--Time Attack
1. Sonic: All stages beyond Hang Castle.*
2. Dark: All stages
3. Rose: None
4. Chaotix: Grand Metropolis, Power Plant.
--Boss Attack: All boss battles except Team battles.
--Score Attack:
1. Dark: All stages (Time bonus)
--Ring Attack: All Team Chaotix stages.