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Offline SadisticMystic

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« on: May 03, 2004, 02:38:27 pm »
...is to help generate "video compilations" for the original four games.

Before proceeding any further, take a look at Quake Done Quick; that's the closest thing I know of to a precedent for what this is supposed to be.  They take the best single-level completions they can find, and string them together into a video that represents a full game completion.

The obvious difference is that instead of doing it with Quake games, we'll do it for Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles.  Using the currently available video database as a foundation, we'll finish it off with videos of all the remaining levels.  One each level, and possibly for each character (I'll get to specs in a while).  For the most part, keep your runs in conformance with the rules.

S1 - Not much to consider here.  All runs work the same way.

S2 - Definitely want a Sonic run.  If you find a stage that can be improved somehow by having 2P with Tails, try it out and it might be admitted into the run.  I'm not convinced a Knuckles run is necessary unless enough levels show major improvements to be available (Chemical Plant 2 does, but if most of the game is just Sonic's routes done with the hindrance of a lower jump, people aren't going to want to see it as a video).

S3&K: Lots of stuff up in the air.  Do we want videos of each game separately...or the whole 12-14 levels in one?  Or both choices (which would entail playing some levels twice)?  If a S&K alone video is made, how do we go about handling Doomsday (since in a full run, you wouldn't have the luxury of starting from a game file with all emeralds since that game played alone has no save feature)?  If there's a S3&K combined run, a video string each for Sonic and for Knuckles is a given...but is Tails necessary?  Apart from levels like Sky Sanctuary, most of Tails' routes are the same as Sonic's, except that there's no opportunity to pull off the "fun with shields" that you see in videos like Carnival Night (both), Lava Reef 2, and Death Egg 1...isn't it the crazy maneuvers in these levels that would draw people to the videos in the first place?  For those Tails-advantaged levels, can the same thing be done by using a Sonic+Tails combo?

Also, take a look at what's currently available...which of it is good enough for these runs, and which needs to be re-recorded and improved first?  Make your suggestions on this or the above matters.  Also, if you get a level complete with enough quality that you think it's worthy of a video segment (assuming you have it recorded in the first place--if you don't have screen-recording software, get one), alert us of its presence!  This can't go anywhere if not for players actually trying to be the fastest!

This is the first big chance to bring net-wide recognition to the site...let's get all this put together!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2004, 08:54:45 pm by SadisticMystic »

Offline Cybrax

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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2004, 04:11:13 pm »
The people that can make videos should all play certain levels from one game and only play those levels until they get times good enough to get first or tie first on the rankings, and then if they are done with their part they can help someone else if they are struggling.
*runs*

Offline Taco

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2004, 12:12:08 am »
Can I try making an advance speed run?

I suppose I would do it with sonic and collect all the emeralds along the way, then beat the final boss

is that allright, or do you want to focus it on the genesis games?

And btw, if it was ok, it might take a while to make the video, seeing as how

1. I want to get it as close to perfect as possible
2. I originally got all the emeralds with tails, so I'd have to find a new fastest route with sonic

If its ok though, then I'll get right on it. But if you want to focus only on genesis, then thats fine. I would submit for genesis, but I suck

Offline yse

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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2004, 03:17:35 am »
Obviously I guess score doesn't matter (I mean, every time score will return to 0, except in special cases like Rusty's CN2).

I suggest S3&K be kept as one game, keeping them separate doesn't prove much, they have the same mechanics anyway.

And for said game, I do believe a Tails video is necessary - on some levels there may only be small flying shortcuts, but may save a few seconds all the same.

Does this also mean this video would have to be updated whenever a time was beaten?

Also, say I wanted to submit for the first act of a game. For aesthetic purposes, would you want the title screen and that stacked on the front?

EDIT: Scratch that. My AIZ1 51 with Knuckles wasn't done that way, and neither was SprintGod's 52 with Sonic or Gunner112K's 20 on Emerald Hill.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 12:30:25 am by mike89 »

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Offline yse

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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2004, 04:49:38 am »
If there's one problem we're going to have with getting this off the ground, it's the distinct lack of active players. In the past week or so, only Rusty and I have been active in Genesis Sonics (well, SprintGod submitted a AIZ1 52 with Sonic, but that's one time...). If we look at individual games, we begin to see the problems:

Sonic 1: 5/19 submissions of acceptable standard (GH1, M1, FZ). I'd say the main reason for this is that the game is so precise that nobody bothers with it, and Legogo didn't record any times. So the equation is simple: sombody match Legogo or this won't happen.

EDIT: Legogo has submitted vids for GH2/3, we hope to see a few more, so hopefully this will be ready sometime soon.

Sonic 2: 8/19 submissions of acceptable standard (or 9/38 if you count Knuckles times). The one in question is Joseph Collins' 51 DEZ. << EDIT: We may as well let that one in, I don't think anyone's beaten even that. Besides, we may get a 49 vid from him soon enough.

The fact that this game was so fiercely competed will be its downfall in getting this off the ground. With no less than 6 players in rather close proximity and with records, a lot of active players are required, as many players seem to have concentrated on certain acts/levels (see: boongee74) or indeed, certain characters (see: my Knuckles total compared to my Sonic total). If Knuckles is considered unimportant to such a compilation, I'm basically out of the running, with all my time records set with Knux. =P

Sonic 3: 9/24 submissions of acceptable standard (11/36 if you count Tails). Note: I'm looking at S3 and S&K separately, they bring different issues to the table.

This one is actually progressing all right, Rusty and I still have more vid-able times to submit. The main problem here will be that many of smtp's records remain unmatched, and he's hardly been active since his major overhaul of the S3 records. With basically those 3 players the only ones with records (with the aforementioned exception of SprintGod, yoshifan's MG1, and SonicAD's AI2) this could almost be finished before we start running into trouble.

S&K: 5/22 submissions of acceptable standard (5/35 if you count Tails, and the Doomsday Zone).

Here's where the real issues come into play. Do we record the Doomsday Zone, or do we leave it out for continuity purposes? Or, do we record runs where we do collect the 7 emeralds along the way? If we do that, can anyone think of 7 acts where we can enter Special Stages without loss of time? (I can think of 2, IC2 from Sonic 3 and LR2, getting 5 more will be a challenge though... does FB1's optimal path pick up the 2 emeralds there?) And the gap between S3 and S&K comes into question again - how is that managed (particularly referring to Sonic/Knuckles on MH1)? Another question is raised as to whether Tails is necessary - I reckon he is, and I base that on Sky Sanctuary alone. He certainly has a much greater use in S3 (if you've seen 2:29 MG2, you'll agree. If you haven't, do so now.). So do we join S3 and S&K at all?

Back to the more practical problem of active players, with Rusty holding the high majority of the records, there shouldn't be too much problem getting this half of S3&K done.

Rusty, I leave the rest to you, but I'm willing to help in any capacity, whether administrative or more practical (see: getting the damn video done).

If anyone can think of 7 Special Stages that won't cause a loss of time, that would be nice too. EDIT: LR2 and MH1 are confirmed, but my IC2 vid shows that the optimal route bypasses the Special Stage there.

And, one last thing, I can answer NintenDan's question about an Advance speed run: No. (You can if you want, but it won't be held in such high regard, I guess. And yes, part of that decision was just to spite you for pwning me =P)

All has been said, but there is much more to be done. Anyone who reads this, get to work!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2004, 03:48:45 am by mike89 »

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Offline Legogo

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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2004, 06:06:51 am »
i made some video but i don t want to show all. With a video it' s  easy to duplicate the record ... i can give some video but not all of them.

Offline ybbun

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2004, 03:36:27 pm »
I achieved all my times on the mega drive. I find it much harder using an emulator (Gens) because it plays a lot faster. If there is a way to slow this down I might be able to do better. There is also a slight delay between pressing buttons and sonic jumping which I can't get used to. I can give away some secrets for some levels so someone else can try to record them maybe? Without my or especially Legogo's input, Sonic 1 won't get very far, although there are some levels where I am utterly confused.
P.S. Remember scrap brain 1 had 0.40 once until brian and xebra left? How do we get that?

Offline Cybrax

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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2004, 03:48:51 pm »
yubinn, is there anyway to record most of your times on a vhs tape?
you could make a tape and send them to me or someone else that can transver them over to the computer.

Offline SadisticMystic

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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2004, 04:06:49 pm »
I don't know what setting is causing it, but Gens plays only at 100% speed for me, no higher.

Offline yoshifan

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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2004, 09:11:36 pm »
In my Sonic Mushroom Hill 1 vid (in S&K, not S3&K), one big ring is directly in my path at about 0:25.  In fact, when I was playing that level, I had to TRY to avoid the big ring...it was the most annoying obstacle when I was trying to get a fast time (because I didn't want the special stage in the middle of my taped run).

Offline yse

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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2004, 04:09:12 am »
ybbun: I agree that Gens does seem to play a bit faster, certainly S3TA seems faster than I remembered it. Nothing that makes times any harder though - I reckon it's easier on a emulator, you can change direction quicker.

yoshifan: Thanks for giving us the second potential emerald location - HOLD ON!! If the best run on MH1 is on S&K alone, then you have to do the first S&K special stage! That throws everything out of whack once more... Damn continuity... My suggestion is that, for a slight sacrifice in speed, MH1 be done on S3&K, requiring it to be taped again.

HOWEVER - note that we can start with up to 4 emeralds if need be, without any lack of continuity. (Now I think about it, we could start with 6, if we finished the game and used Level Select. Or even 13, then Super Sonic can't trigger until the 14th is picked up, then you get Hyper, but you should have a fire shield for the rest of LR2 anyway. The only problem then becomes Sky Sanctuary, and that can be avoided simply by not picking up 50 rings, or taking a hit. Thoughts?)

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Offline Taco

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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2004, 07:49:23 pm »
Dont know if it helps or not, seeing as how its not with sonic, but...

I did manage to get a recording of Knuckles in Lava Reef Zone 1 with a time of 1:42. however, it doesn't look really professional, and I believe 1:35 is better, but I dont want to try and get this, unless its needed to compile this video. If it isn't needed, then I'll just stick it on the site

well, Although I'm not the greatest at the genesis games (especiall sonic 1), I'll still try and help as best as I can!

Offline yse

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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2004, 04:05:17 am »
Read over the topic again. It clearly states that for S&K a Sonic run and a Knuckles run are a given. And did you ever record that Sandopolis 1?

Also, I can't see how 1:35 wouldn't be better than 1:42. =P

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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2004, 05:12:30 pm »
......... im lost in this topic
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Offline yoshifan

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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2004, 06:47:39 pm »
If we're going to make this look professional and like a continuous run, we should make sure that the quality of each actual video (framerate, resolution, etc.) is consistently good.  Also, we should make sure to include the full beginning and end of each level - each individual video should start when/before the screen is completely black, and end after the screen fades out after the score is calculated.  Then parts could be cut if necessary, and the vids could be strung into a continuous run.  So basically, I don't think any of my current vids would work.  I'll be willing to help put this together when I get back to Sonic in a month or two, though.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2004, 06:49:38 pm by yoshifan »

Offline yse

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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2004, 07:50:28 pm »
yoshifan: No offense, but you probably only have 2 times that will go into the vids anyway - I refer to MG1 Sonic and DE1 Sonic. Damn, that was crazy...

Also, your comments about consistent framerate, etc are right on the money, but it will be hard to keep up. Somebody needs to record a better 20 EHZ1, for sure, and I guess, given the length of some of the S3/S&K vids, they're all going to have to be in WMV format.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2004, 07:53:42 pm by mike89 »

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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2004, 01:18:56 am »
all  or nearly your vid cut out and hill top had a bad run before it  :D
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2004, 01:39:48 am »
It does it on your computer too? Ah crap...

I'm aware of the HT1 problem, but I thought Rusty might have fixed it. Evidently not...

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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2004, 01:43:42 am »
i didnt load it i just knew(or veryt much thought) he would leave it
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Offline yoshifan

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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2004, 04:18:36 pm »
mike89:  MG1 will be hard to duplicate for a better video capture, since I thought the run was flawless when I got it, but I'll try my best when I play again.  I'm pretty sure I can improve DE1, though, as there were at least three mistakes in my run, and of course there was the well-handled second boss phase.  Plus, I know someone else with a 2:17 (I got the strat for the first boss phase from him).

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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2004, 04:32:37 pm »
you did i thought it was pathtic and if i trying (which i wont im doing sonic heroes) i could smash it
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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2004, 07:54:48 pm »
I guess I'll have to do a 1:17 Metropolis act 1 on video, crap. This will be hard, I've only done it once.

My question: What recorder do you guys use? I've tried HyperCam, but it makes my game lag like psycho and when the video comes out it looks laggy too. Are there any cameras that don't lag like this?

Offline SprintGod

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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2004, 06:37:01 am »
If you aren't doing so already, set the Gens rendering mode to 'Normal', and lower your desktop resolution so you can see it better. A smaller window gives Hypercam less work to do.

Just as a bit of a benchmark...
Hypercam, 1.6GHz, 12fps, no problems at all.
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Offline SadisticMystic

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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2004, 06:53:45 am »
I get 15fps on Camtasia Recorder with 2.4GHz.  Haven't tested HyperCam.

Offline yse

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« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2004, 07:12:08 am »
Quote
I get 15fps on Camtasia Recorder with 2.4GHz.  Haven't tested HyperCam.
Same here, but mine always seem to be about twice as big, and if I play it any slower you can't SD properly.

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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2004, 03:47:56 pm »
I got Camtasia Studio. It still lags a bit, but it's playable, and I set the video to 15 FPS so it doesn't look dumb. So far, the best I have is a 1:19. I did another 1:17, but the camera wasn't running.  :(

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« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2004, 04:45:33 pm »
I'm afraid I don't have anything much to add to the discussion about the technicalities of getting fast times or recording videos, but I have a suggestion for a something that could be an interesting enhancement to the project when it's all done. Why not try contacting some of the creators at http://www.ocremix.org/ and http://www.vgmix.com/ to see if they'd let you include some of their Sonic remixes on the final video, played over the appropriate levels? I think it'd be a fun little embelleshment, unless you'd prefer to have it muted to keep the filesizes down. And maybe you've got enough trouble organising all the other aspects of the project without worrying about differences in musical taste too. :D

Some recommendations:

"Fortress of Glory" (Wing Fortress)
"LightningStar" (Star Light)
"Pokerface" (Casino Night),
"BottledMetro" (a great blend of Metropolis/Hydrocity)
"Deep Damp Sandcastle" (Sandopolis)
"rAAw Battery" (Flying Battery)
"Kevin Lorenzo's Theory of the Death Egg"
"The Outer Space Machine" (Sonic 3 final boss)
"Marble Cake" (Marble Zone)

I'll stop there. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Wey hey, I seem to have killed the topic! Yay me! I mean, oops...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2004, 01:11:10 pm by Sonic Singularity »
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Offline yse

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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2004, 07:12:11 am »
Update on the progress of Project Speed:

Sonic 1 was almost completely out of action until DJ Caesar posted his 25 SL2. This should cover the first half of the game well (it's savestated, don't expect to replicate it =P)

Sonic 2 is going nowhere. Since I stopped playing, nobody's vid'd anything.

As for S3&K: this should cover that just fine. Any number of Knuckles routes are covered in individual vids, and Tails doesn't differ much, except MG2 and SS (you'll find vids for those too).

I've also started on S2GG, and it appears HCC has got vids for half of S1GG too. Thoughts on these?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 07:12:58 am by mike89 »

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Offline SprintGod

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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2004, 02:50:37 pm »
Better link for the S3&K recording, with both a GMV and AVI:
http://tasvideos.org/156M.html

There's no point linking to a GMV without explaining what it is (Gens Movie file, playable with a modified version of Gens found here. The correct ROM is also necessary).

Also, linking directly to 'tool-assisted' recordings without mentioning the fact that they were created using savestates and slowdown is what causes morons to think that they are genuine records.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 10:02:05 pm by SprintGod »
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Offline qubit

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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2004, 04:43:50 pm »
I think SuperSonic101 is doing a run of Hero Story Mode (SA2B) in which he gets an A on every single level and doesn't lose a life.

Haven't spoken to him recently, he's ill.
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