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1
Leaderboard Disputes / Re: ATTN: ring rush
« on: April 20, 2022, 04:30:19 pm »
I uploaded a video of Alf Layla the day after I got it, which is one of the longest levels in the game and involves a lot of shaking. I streamed Bemoth and Sand Scorpion live on Twitch. But you're just going to call all that Dolphin too, so I can't win here.
Your entire argument boils down to 1) I know how to cheat using Dolphin, 2) I get faster times then you, 3) And therefore I am cheating to get faster times than you. When I post years-old proof of me playing off a TV, you just say I'm cherry picking or that I'm running dolphin on Wii. I'm not interested in running this game any more, and so I'm not going to redo all missions with controller cam just because you want to stir up drama.
So I'm going to ignore the rest of your baseless speculation now and use this opportunity to advertise the super cool All Missions TAS I made. If you want to see actual superhuman play, and not just play that is better than sonicandamy but still human, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJhP2yusVWc
Your entire argument boils down to 1) I know how to cheat using Dolphin, 2) I get faster times then you, 3) And therefore I am cheating to get faster times than you. When I post years-old proof of me playing off a TV, you just say I'm cherry picking or that I'm running dolphin on Wii. I'm not interested in running this game any more, and so I'm not going to redo all missions with controller cam just because you want to stir up drama.
So I'm going to ignore the rest of your baseless speculation now and use this opportunity to advertise the super cool All Missions TAS I made. If you want to see actual superhuman play, and not just play that is better than sonicandamy but still human, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJhP2yusVWc
2
Leaderboard Disputes / Re: ATTN: ring rush
« on: February 23, 2021, 01:54:10 am »
First of all, you know there are better places to get my attention than a dead forum that someone happened to mention to me about. If you're going to accuse me of cheating (and yes, I consider claims of advanced controller input cheating), then you should at least do it in a place where it is reasonable to expect me to see it.
I do use dolphin when I TAS, but all my RTAs are 100% on a wii (or lately a wii u), with a wiimote.
A lot of my times are from long before Dolphin existed or had proper wii support. If you're specifically concerned about more recent ones, here are some videos and proofs of runs I've done in the last several years (admittedly I haven't done a ton). These aren't all on the site because I stopped submitting to this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1lNyGOzUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LTGcaZ0eNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Hy2s_fXkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBspNIzdcTQ
https://twitter.com/RusherOfRings/status/1147990052783325184
You can see both the video quality gap and the play gap between these and the videos I post of TASes (on Twitter, or further below in this post). The PS9 video pretty explicitly shows that I'm playing on a TV. Technically it doesn't "prove" anything because I could just be displaying an emulator run on a TV and then re-capturing, but these are clearly timestamped as done years ago and not in response to this. I've also played Secret Rings live in front of people before, and streamed me doing Alf Layla with controller cam on Twitch before.
I agree that advanced controller input gives a massive advantage. And I am a huge advocate of using proper control schemes, and have campaigned for more restrictions on controllers across multiple games including storybook sonic games. My main motivation for this is that I don't want someone using some trivializing control scheme when I've put a lot of effort into using motion controls to the best of my ability.
I'll leave you with this - it's a tool assisted reference point. This is a better approximation of the kind of time you get if you use Dolphin and their implementation of "hold key down to automatically shake", not baby 45.21 like I have or a 45.31 like you have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRe897evQik
I do use dolphin when I TAS, but all my RTAs are 100% on a wii (or lately a wii u), with a wiimote.
A lot of my times are from long before Dolphin existed or had proper wii support. If you're specifically concerned about more recent ones, here are some videos and proofs of runs I've done in the last several years (admittedly I haven't done a ton). These aren't all on the site because I stopped submitting to this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1lNyGOzUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LTGcaZ0eNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Hy2s_fXkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBspNIzdcTQ
https://twitter.com/RusherOfRings/status/1147990052783325184
You can see both the video quality gap and the play gap between these and the videos I post of TASes (on Twitter, or further below in this post). The PS9 video pretty explicitly shows that I'm playing on a TV. Technically it doesn't "prove" anything because I could just be displaying an emulator run on a TV and then re-capturing, but these are clearly timestamped as done years ago and not in response to this. I've also played Secret Rings live in front of people before, and streamed me doing Alf Layla with controller cam on Twitch before.
I agree that advanced controller input gives a massive advantage. And I am a huge advocate of using proper control schemes, and have campaigned for more restrictions on controllers across multiple games including storybook sonic games. My main motivation for this is that I don't want someone using some trivializing control scheme when I've put a lot of effort into using motion controls to the best of my ability.
I'll leave you with this - it's a tool assisted reference point. This is a better approximation of the kind of time you get if you use Dolphin and their implementation of "hold key down to automatically shake", not baby 45.21 like I have or a 45.31 like you have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRe897evQik
3
Wikkity! / Re: iexrrr - SA2(B) - Route 280 - 276 Rings - Query...
« on: May 31, 2016, 07:11:50 pm »
This came up years ago and the strat was banned for submission years ago. I personally don't care either way since the duplication is limited in scope.
4
News and Updates / Re: Administrator Title Change
« on: May 05, 2015, 02:50:26 pm »
TSC doesn't need a specialized community to be worth existing. It is just a fun place to track stats because of interesting motivators like the color system, sitewide/game points, and an unrivaled depth of historical times to continually climb the ranks. Speedrun.com is just a personality-less list of times, and if you want to speed up the death of IL competition switching over is one surefire way to do it.
I've enjoyed TSC for years now without considering myself a member of the community...that aspect just isn't needed. As long as there is interest in comparing times there is a niche for TSC (there are still like 500 stats a week which is a ton). I don't normally post on the forum, but I am genuinely upset that people are talking about taking the site down just because their friends are leaving. Make friends elsewhere, post times here...don't drag a great thing down just because you want to gloom and doom about how the "glory days" are gone.
I've enjoyed TSC for years now without considering myself a member of the community...that aspect just isn't needed. As long as there is interest in comparing times there is a niche for TSC (there are still like 500 stats a week which is a ton). I don't normally post on the forum, but I am genuinely upset that people are talking about taking the site down just because their friends are leaving. Make friends elsewhere, post times here...don't drag a great thing down just because you want to gloom and doom about how the "glory days" are gone.
5
Rules Revisions / Re: Sonic Adventure Series System Separation
« on: May 10, 2013, 01:03:49 am »
Good luck sorting the thousands of stats submitted over the last decade into the right consoles.
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News and Updates / Re: Return of "TSC Marathoning Shenanigans - Very Very Early Planning Stages"
« on: December 25, 2011, 01:02:30 am »
SSR is a terrible marathon game because it starts out horribly, horribly slow and boring and never really picks up unless you play for 10+ hours. It is short though.
7
Leaderboard Disputes / Re: ATTN: surtic
« on: June 13, 2011, 04:38:57 pm »
Posting this under request of SonicAD:
Emerald Coast - Gamma 3:32:07
Sky Deck - Sonic 1:45:82
Speed Highway - Sonic 1:14:40
Hot Shelter - Amy 2:39:02
Lost World - Knuckles 17:06
You have been temporarily revoked until you provide proof for the preceding stats. If your stats are legitimate, we apologize for the inconvenience.
Emerald Coast - Gamma 3:32:07
Sky Deck - Sonic 1:45:82
Speed Highway - Sonic 1:14:40
Hot Shelter - Amy 2:39:02
Lost World - Knuckles 17:06
You have been temporarily revoked until you provide proof for the preceding stats. If your stats are legitimate, we apologize for the inconvenience.
8
Gaming and Grazing / Re: TSC Meetup - Antioch, CA July 15th-17th and thereabouts
« on: May 14, 2011, 06:49:29 pm »
I will almost certainly be there, given how close it is to my house.
First post at TSC in a long time?
First post at TSC in a long time?
9
Competition Central / Re: NTSC and PAL times should be seperate when there is a speed difference
« on: December 28, 2010, 04:27:00 am »
If everyone can go play 50 hz, then it is fair for everyone. If you choose to play 60 hz that is entirely your fault. Among the people who want to get the best times and use 50 hz, the faster people beat the slower people. There is competition, and the better people rank higher than the worse people.
10
Competition Central / Re: NTSC and PAL times should be seperate when there is a speed difference
« on: December 28, 2010, 04:19:30 am »
You want a timing advantage? Rapidly pause. People will hate you for it, and you probably won't get much satisfaction from time attacking, but it will make things easier.
In all seriousness, this is an issue that has been discussed many times, and it has been decided to keep the charts as they are. TAing a few levels would be much more productive than trying to fight for this.
In all seriousness, this is an issue that has been discussed many times, and it has been decided to keep the charts as they are. TAing a few levels would be much more productive than trying to fight for this.
11
Leaderboard Disputes / Re: ATTN: HyperSonic7701
« on: August 10, 2010, 06:42:41 pm »
You will never get unbanned, no matter how long you wait. TSC likes to pride itself on integrity, and we've learned from past mistakes that unbanning cheaters doesn't stop them from cheating. This may not be the case with you, you may play completely legitimately from now on. Unfortunately, we'd rather not take the chances. Is it fair to you? No. Is it fair to everyone else who wants to compete against legitimate times? Yes. In conclusion, sucks to be you, deal with it, and find another place to do speedruns. By lieing in the past, you have expelled yourself from this community.
12
Beef / Re: Why Knuckles/Rouge Speed runs for SA1 (DX) and SA2(Battle) should be removed
« on: August 10, 2010, 03:21:36 pm »
Okay, so a glitch that makes a 2-5 minute level into a 12 second level is okay then, like SM's original version of the trick. Or if you say that is bad, what about the old GC trick that makes a 2-5 minute level into a 30 second level? What happens if you attempt the trick many times and finish with a time of 1:30?
Also, once again people are talking about the purpose of the level. And once again, we don't care about the purpose of the level. If you really want to argue, please stop saying the following words: "purpose", "intention", "developers", "original".
Also, what defines best is who has the fastest time. Any other definition of best is subjective. So if the people who have the fastest time are on top, then yes, the best are on top and the worst are on the bottom. If you can't do the glitch, and get a green time because of it, for the purpose of that chart, you are bad. Learn the glitch, practice, or else simply deal with it.
Edit: Ah well, parax beat me to a post. I'm just going to post this anyways since I already typed it out.
Also, once again people are talking about the purpose of the level. And once again, we don't care about the purpose of the level. If you really want to argue, please stop saying the following words: "purpose", "intention", "developers", "original".
Also, what defines best is who has the fastest time. Any other definition of best is subjective. So if the people who have the fastest time are on top, then yes, the best are on top and the worst are on the bottom. If you can't do the glitch, and get a green time because of it, for the purpose of that chart, you are bad. Learn the glitch, practice, or else simply deal with it.
Edit: Ah well, parax beat me to a post. I'm just going to post this anyways since I already typed it out.
13
Beef / Re: Why Knuckles/Rouge Speed runs for SA1 (DX) and SA2(Battle) should be removed
« on: August 10, 2010, 03:00:39 pm »
So where is the line drawn for what glitch is called "freestyle" and what glitch isn't? I'd claim that Final Egg, for instance, is way more glitched than Casinopolis or Icecap. I'd also claim that Twinkle Park is extremely glitched....in fact pretty much every level in SADX is. Should all charts be freestyled? What is the point then? What if a level had a 1 second timesaver, should it be freestyled? What about a 2 second one? A 4 second one? A 30 second one? Where is this magical line for when a glitch is major enough to freestyle it?
We don't care if people want to show off. We care who has the fastest time. If you are not using the glitch, you do not have the fastest time, and you deserve a lower position on the chart. End of story.
We don't care if people want to show off. We care who has the fastest time. If you are not using the glitch, you do not have the fastest time, and you deserve a lower position on the chart. End of story.
14
Beef / Re: Why Knuckles/Rouge Speed runs for SA1 (DX) and SA2(Battle) should be removed
« on: August 09, 2010, 06:24:43 pm »
The difference between the 00:00:00 glitches and the casinopolis trick is that the casinopolis trick still leaves room for competition. The 00:00:00 glitch does not: it makes the level instantly degenerative. Plus, the 00:00:00 tricks require a reset of the game timer that does not involve restarting from a checkpoint. No legal trick on TSC does this. There is a pretty clear difference between playing a level slowly and then ending up with a fast time due to a restart sequence and finding an extremely fast, unconventional path through the level.
We determine legality based on what follows the overarching site rules (no cheating devices, hardware modification, etc) and what allows for the fastest competition possible without being degenerative. We avoid being arbitrary whenever we can without contradicting one of the above two, and attempt to have consistant rules across multiple games. If you can think of a better way to determine legality that creates interesting competition without being exceptionally arbitrary, I'd love to hear it.
The website is not too popular, that is true. But that is more because sonic speedrunning is not too popular, not because our rulesets are bad. Furthermore, the site could be advertised better. You can't blame the rules you don't like on all the website's problem.
What is wrong with fighting over a hundredth of a second? It is still competition. The seperation between times doesn't matter, as long as there is some. We don't care if you don't like frame differences between first and second, it is still viable competition and will still be on TSC.
If you really don't like the charts, don't compete in them. End of story.
We determine legality based on what follows the overarching site rules (no cheating devices, hardware modification, etc) and what allows for the fastest competition possible without being degenerative. We avoid being arbitrary whenever we can without contradicting one of the above two, and attempt to have consistant rules across multiple games. If you can think of a better way to determine legality that creates interesting competition without being exceptionally arbitrary, I'd love to hear it.
The website is not too popular, that is true. But that is more because sonic speedrunning is not too popular, not because our rulesets are bad. Furthermore, the site could be advertised better. You can't blame the rules you don't like on all the website's problem.
What is wrong with fighting over a hundredth of a second? It is still competition. The seperation between times doesn't matter, as long as there is some. We don't care if you don't like frame differences between first and second, it is still viable competition and will still be on TSC.
If you really don't like the charts, don't compete in them. End of story.
15
Beef / Re: Why Knuckles/Rouge Speed runs for SA1 (DX) and SA2(Battle) should be removed
« on: August 09, 2010, 05:45:39 pm »
"Number 1: The Knuckles levels have the Emerald Shards in random places and it makes getting a good time based on luck. ESPECIALLY in Sonic Adventure 2 due to the level size of Knuckles's/Rouge's levels. Which means most of the times will be based on luck unless you do a glitch which will be addressed in point 2. This would make most times either really long and it would be like that if the glitch was not there."
I've gotten all my Knuckles/Rouge m1 times without using that "glitch" you are talking about, and they are all red zone (or at least were all red zone, this was a few years ago). You can still compete even without "glitching" it. Either way, this is a moot point, since when we are talking about the competative nature of a chart we are including all legal tactics, including this "glitch" (to be addressed in point 2).
"Number 2: There is a glitch which lets you make your time shorter by making the Emeralds spawn near you. Which shows no skill what so ever and it just there to make you brag about how you beat Pumpkin Hill in 9 seconds or so. To me, speed runs is showing how much skill you have that you can beat a level in a short time. Like darkspines beating City Escape in under 2 minutes. Not doing a glitch based on luck."
Where to begin? First of all, if it takes no skill whatsoever, then why doesn’t everyone have the max? You can manipulate the emeralds to start near you, but then you still have to GET them quickly. Furthermore, since everyone uses the same emerald locations due to the “glitch”, all instances of luck are removed (just to further invalidate your first point).
Secondly, we don’t care what you think a speed run is. A speed run, according to TSC, is defined as completing a level as quickly as possible using our rules. Nowhere is “skill” involved in the definition. I’d contend that certain records take very little skill, far less than hunting m1s (LP17 in SSR comes to mind), but that doesn’t mean they are not speed runs. Furthermore, as I said before, hunting m1s DO take skill, since if you are using the “glitch” properly you still have to get to the emeralds as fast as possible.
Since the charts are competitive (as evidenced by the lack of ties), they are on TSC. Opinions on the amount of skill they take are irrelevant. And by the way, watch sonicgu1tar’s speedrun of City Escape if you want to see skill, it is far more impressive than DsS’s.
Number 3: The levels were not built for speed runners. They were built for exploration. So having Speed Run ranking for a level/set of levels is defeating the original purpose of the level.
Once again, we don’t care what they were designed for. If they were truly designed for exploration only, why would the game save your fastest time? We can compete on them, and we will compete on them. Stop trying to pretend you are a game designer and know what the purpose of every level is, or think that purpose applies to us.
I've gotten all my Knuckles/Rouge m1 times without using that "glitch" you are talking about, and they are all red zone (or at least were all red zone, this was a few years ago). You can still compete even without "glitching" it. Either way, this is a moot point, since when we are talking about the competative nature of a chart we are including all legal tactics, including this "glitch" (to be addressed in point 2).
"Number 2: There is a glitch which lets you make your time shorter by making the Emeralds spawn near you. Which shows no skill what so ever and it just there to make you brag about how you beat Pumpkin Hill in 9 seconds or so. To me, speed runs is showing how much skill you have that you can beat a level in a short time. Like darkspines beating City Escape in under 2 minutes. Not doing a glitch based on luck."
Where to begin? First of all, if it takes no skill whatsoever, then why doesn’t everyone have the max? You can manipulate the emeralds to start near you, but then you still have to GET them quickly. Furthermore, since everyone uses the same emerald locations due to the “glitch”, all instances of luck are removed (just to further invalidate your first point).
Secondly, we don’t care what you think a speed run is. A speed run, according to TSC, is defined as completing a level as quickly as possible using our rules. Nowhere is “skill” involved in the definition. I’d contend that certain records take very little skill, far less than hunting m1s (LP17 in SSR comes to mind), but that doesn’t mean they are not speed runs. Furthermore, as I said before, hunting m1s DO take skill, since if you are using the “glitch” properly you still have to get to the emeralds as fast as possible.
Since the charts are competitive (as evidenced by the lack of ties), they are on TSC. Opinions on the amount of skill they take are irrelevant. And by the way, watch sonicgu1tar’s speedrun of City Escape if you want to see skill, it is far more impressive than DsS’s.
Number 3: The levels were not built for speed runners. They were built for exploration. So having Speed Run ranking for a level/set of levels is defeating the original purpose of the level.
Once again, we don’t care what they were designed for. If they were truly designed for exploration only, why would the game save your fastest time? We can compete on them, and we will compete on them. Stop trying to pretend you are a game designer and know what the purpose of every level is, or think that purpose applies to us.
16
Leaderboard Disputes / Re: ATTN: Son1cGu1tar - SA2 Rings
« on: July 21, 2010, 02:36:49 am »
Yeah, I think people stopped doubting you a long time ago. You are just insanely good.
17
Competition Central / Re: The SSR Rating
« on: May 30, 2010, 01:13:11 pm »
To be fair, this list seems better at putting people where they should be based on demonstrated skill. However, as far as the actual rankings are concerned, I agree with everyone above who said we should use the old system. Even if it is less accurate, it encourages competition.
18
Competition Central / Re: The SSR Rating Thread!
« on: May 29, 2010, 02:31:11 pm »
But according to TSC I should be #1 in SSR :(
19
Wikkity! / Re: Official Utterly Long and Boring Chatroom Log Segments
« on: March 07, 2010, 11:31:05 pm »
Zeph is going to stop her by getting stats and not posting them of course.
20
Competition Central / Re: The Official Top Tens Topic
« on: March 07, 2010, 09:00:04 pm »
Maybe on day 1 we put the 10th best time, ring, score, boss (etc) records? And then day 2 its 9th and so on in that fashion. <-- A Ring Chain record per day? I'm guaranteed to win at least 6 of those...
21
General Sonic / Re: Favorite Sonic game of the 2000s
« on: January 06, 2010, 07:03:01 pm »Anyone who doesn't pick SA2, SA1, or Rush is why this franchise has died.
I pick SA2
Rush Adventure and Sonic Advance 3 were both better than Rush.
I'd say SA2 though.
22
Wikkity! / Re: Predictions for 2010!!!
« on: December 24, 2009, 04:05:07 pm »Quote
Oh no you won't. Those are both -MY- leaderships.
Your point? >_>
23
Wikkity! / Re: Predictions for 2010!!!
« on: December 24, 2009, 12:30:40 am »
Goals:
1. Actually start going back to TSC. My Baten Kaitos run should be done within the next few months, so back to TSC for me.
2. Sub 10 in SatSR....I'm two points away, but those two points refuse to budge. I'd say 0p, but that just isn't feasible with some of the times I'd have to beat *cough Erazor Djinn Alf Layla NP2*
3. SSR or SBK speedrun for SDA...I'm no good at SBK right now, but it seems like a much easier game to run for single segment.
4. All SBK chain records...I want to say I have all chain records on the site :D
5. Retake SRA score leadership, maybe ring leadership...scores should be easy, rings probably won't be.
6. Improve times in random other divisions - SA2B, SADX, SUWii, SBK; all of these could get some improvement.
7. Do something involving rings, not sure what.
1. Actually start going back to TSC. My Baten Kaitos run should be done within the next few months, so back to TSC for me.
2. Sub 10 in SatSR....I'm two points away, but those two points refuse to budge. I'd say 0p, but that just isn't feasible with some of the times I'd have to beat *cough Erazor Djinn Alf Layla NP2*
3. SSR or SBK speedrun for SDA...I'm no good at SBK right now, but it seems like a much easier game to run for single segment.
4. All SBK chain records...I want to say I have all chain records on the site :D
5. Retake SRA score leadership, maybe ring leadership...scores should be easy, rings probably won't be.
6. Improve times in random other divisions - SA2B, SADX, SUWii, SBK; all of these could get some improvement.
7. Do something involving rings, not sure what.
24
Competition Central / Re: New score attacker hits the scene, breaks a record, and I have a link!
« on: December 16, 2009, 04:20:00 pm »
Ah, Mentaiko. I remember when he used to play Sonic and the Secret Rings, he had some pretty good times and I learned a few strategies from him. I tried to get him to join TSC, but he insists he is not good enough.
25
Wikkity! / Re: American recruited into the Australian Football League for the first time ever
« on: November 10, 2009, 06:46:18 pm »
--> #sports
26
News and Updates / Re: Happy 6th Birthday TSC!
« on: October 23, 2009, 07:28:51 pm »
I call bs. It is clearly mine not yours.
27
Competition Central / Re: Yet ANOTHER glitch to BAN for S3K
« on: October 19, 2009, 12:34:41 am »
Well, if Knuckles can get to a bonus ring faster than Sonic can, you can use this glitch to help a Sonic run.
28
Beef / Re: All My Stats.
« on: September 21, 2009, 12:07:35 am »banned me on the spot.
i support this notion
In all seriousness, stop thinking that everyone hates you. They don't. They just dislike your attitude sometimes (such as now).
29
General Sonic / Re: On the 9th September of 2009
« on: September 11, 2009, 06:06:39 pm »
Perhaps you should read Politics and the English Language by George Orwell.
30
Competition Central / Re: Chaotix Hang Castle rings 999 (What if you have to touch the back ring?)
« on: August 30, 2009, 09:13:03 pm »
I personally can't add to the discussion, but for future reference, I'd suggest going to irc (#soniccenter on irc.surrealchat.net, you can use mIRC or CGI:IRC or other clients you've heard of to access it) to ask questions if you want immediate answers.
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