[Luxray]

Leaving this point here before I forget: Death Egg mk.II 1 does indeed have infinite rings, but it has a finite time limit. Is ten minutes of rings enough to make up for losing the huge time bonuses that Sonic 4 offers?

Deep Core Rings.

[Ajavalo]

OK, with Super Sonic at least, I'm pretty sure a score attack of DEMk.2 will need a focus on time bonus. I don't even think reaching 999 Ring is possible, you'd have to be a complete monster at precision jumping. :P

On a general note: a good time bonus along with some Rings is likely to push your score past 100k in most stages!

[SpinDashMaster]

Leaving this point here before I forget: Death Egg mk.II 1 does indeed have infinite rings, but it has a finite time limit. Is ten minutes of rings enough to make up for losing the huge time bonuses that Sonic 4 offers?

Deep Core Rings.

Exception Score, more like.

[SpinDashMaster]

About Super Sonic stats: do you need to finish the stage transformed, or just using him at some moments is enough? I say this because of the combo moves.

Sonic's division will ban transforming into SS ever.
Super Sonic's division will require at least 1 transformation into Super Sonic. Whether the player reverts, re-transforms or not is at their discretion for this division.

If we were to track them we should make them a separate game because to get Episode Metal you need to have both Episodes 1 and 2 and not everyone will have both.

Episode metal will definitely be tracked due to the entirely new level layouts. These are not mere rehashes of the old S4E1 stages; but rather a "hard mode" of sorts -- inserting quite a few new elements to reshape the stage (Much like how Colors reuses the same parts of a level for various acts).

[Parax]

According to Inu, as Super Sonic invincibility boxes turn into 1ups, or ring boxes in TA mode. Allowed for RAs?

[SpinDashMaster]

Allow it.

[Bilan]

I was under the impression using TA Mode for RA's was the done thing in Ep1, so no reason to change that in Ep2.

[flying fox]

I was under the impression using TA Mode for RA's was the done thing in Ep1, so no reason to change that in Ep2.

That is correct. Off topic for a moment, thinking of Casino Street act 1 in Ep1, is there a slot machine in episode metal?

[Parax]

I was under the impression using TA Mode for RA's was the done thing in Ep1, so no reason to change that in Ep2.

Yeah I was more asking if we were gonna allow Super Sonic in RAs.

[Bilan]

Don't see why not, it's actually beneficial to use him (briefly) and doesn't add a great deal of complexity. GG/MS Sonic games still have more complicated RA's >_>

[Parax]

Strangely enough, the slot machines don't appear to be there in Episode Metal. Never mind, I'm dumb.

So here's what I propose the charts be (putting Bosses and Special Stages where they are to be consistent with the level select and with the Episode 1 charts), notes in brackets:

Sonic 4: Episode II

Times (x'xx"xx)
- Sylvania Castle 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 1 (Sonic) [are we sure we want to track this? x.x] [also, no Super Sonic chart because it's not really any different and this level sucks]
- Sky Fortress 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Death Egg mk.II 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic) [I'm in favor of simply naming this level Death Egg 1, but this name is more consistent with the game]
- Death Egg mk.II Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)

Rings
- Sylvania Castle 1 (Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle 2 (Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle 3 (Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle Boss (Sonic)
- White Park 1 (Sonic)
- White Park 2 (Sonic)
- White Park 3 (Sonic)
- Oil Desert 1 (Sonic)
- Oil Desert 2 (Sonic)
- Oil Desert 3 (Sonic)
- Oil Desert Boss (Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 1 (Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 2 (Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 3 (Sonic)
- Death Egg mk.II Boss (Sonic)
- Special Stage 1 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 2 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 3 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 4 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 5 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 6 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 7 (Sonic)

Scores
- Sylvania Castle 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sylvania Castle Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- White Park Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic) (including these infinite ring levels under the impression that time bonus is a lot more important than ring bonus)
- Oil Desert 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Oil Desert Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 2 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress 3 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Sky Fortress Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Death Egg mk.II 1 (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Death Egg mk.II Boss (Sonic, Super Sonic)
- Special Stage 1 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 2 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 3 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 4 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 5 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 6 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 7 (Sonic)

Special (x'xx"xx)
- Special Stage 1 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 2 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 3 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 4 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 5 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 6 (Sonic)
- Special Stage 7 (Sonic)

Rules:
* In Super Sonic divisions, you must transform into Super Sonic before the act ends in order for your stat to count.
* In Sonic Divisions, transforming into Super Sonic invalidates your stat, with the exception of the Rings category.
Times:
* Where available, the game's Time Attack mode is to be used for setting records.
Rings:
* In Sonic divisions, you are allowed to transform into Super Sonic.

Sonic 4: Episode Metal

Times [are these names okay? in-game they're merely referred to as Episode Metal Act 1/2/3/4]
- Mad Gear (Metal Sonic)
- Lost Labyrinth (Metal Sonic)
- Casino Street (Metal Sonic)
- Splash Hill (Metal Sonic)

Rings
- Mad Gear (Metal Sonic)
- Lost Labyrinth (Metal Sonic)
- Splash Hill (Metal Sonic)

Scores
- Mad Gear (Metal Sonic)
- Lost Labyrinth (Metal Sonic)
- Splash Hill (Metal Sonic)

Rules:
Times:
* Where available, the game's Time Attack mode is to be used for setting records.



Any further reason to delay putting them up? Does anyone see any issues with these charts?

[Bilan]

Looks good to me!

Addendum: Having Scores for the infinite ring levels is fine IMO because the time bonus will outweigh the ring scalping anyway.

[Luxray]

Leaving this point here before I forget: Death Egg mk.II 1 does indeed have infinite rings, but it has a finite time limit. Is ten minutes of rings enough to make up for losing the huge time bonuses that Sonic 4 offers?

Deep Core Rings.

Exception Score, more like.

...even better than mine!

Also while the rules do cover everything, they feel malformed. Other than that, the charts seem complete and ready to go.

[Parax]

Small change, I removed the Super Sonic chart for Sky Fortress 1 from the list because that level is not really any different with SS... plus tracking it in the first place is kinda iffy anyway. Any objections?

[Bilan]

It doesn't make the level any different seeing as you cant kill the boss faster with SS.

I'm not entirely convinced it's worth tracking for time, but theoretically I guess you -can- kill the boss faster if you're good at hitting cannonballs?

[Parax]

Pretty sure you can hit the cannonballs relatively easily on the first frame they become solid which means times will be determined by how close you can get to the start of the scripted sequences so the game doesn't have to move you much <_<

[SpinDashMaster]

Special divisions should be rings format, not times.
Remove Special Stages from times, add them to rings.

IIRC, we were going to have the special division focus on rings rather than time, or was the former post by RPG corrected?

[Parax]

That's not how the Episode 1 charts were done.

[SpinDashMaster]

Episode 1's Special stages are also entirely different. The primary focus of these special stages are rings, not necessarily reaching the goal in time. Therefore their main competitive focus should also be rings, despite the way the game inherently doesn't track rings.

[SpinDashMaster]

Also:

[22:17:31] <&SDM> um
[22:17:34] <&SDM> 4-act game?
[22:17:59] <&SDM> can we reach a metal ground and just make Ep. Metal an Extra division?
[22:18:01] <&SDM> err
[22:18:03] <&SDM> middle ground

i.e. Put Episode Metal's times under Extra category, and his rings and scores in the Rings/Scores categories.

For those who haven't/can't unlock Episode Metal on Steam, it should be noted that you need only replace your save file with a save file which has Episode Metal unlocked. No Episode 1 purchase necessary.

[Parax]

So, we have one more issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXztrmkLdoI

Seems that on iOS, normal Sonic does double damage... that would give him a huge advantage on basically every boss. Allow it?

[Hakuryo]

Sky Fortress Boss needs 6 hits on consoles/PC?

if yes, then i would say don't allow it because of the advantage

[Parax]

Well, we typically allow version differences, so I dunno. Just wondering what peoples' thoughts are on this.

[TheAquaSheep]

I was under the impression using TA Mode for RA's was the done thing in Ep1, so no reason to change that in Ep2.

Sorry if this question is dumb, I am relativly new to this, however, are RA's still valid if they are done in Score mode, even if Time mode is the norm? I have 90 rings on DEmk.II Boss but it was done on Score attack so I don't know if I can submit it.

[Parax]

SA mode is fine for rings, but you're at a disadvantage since there are more rings in TA mode.