[flying fox]

Boss Divisions
*In the Team battles, if the battle ends before you gain control of your team, your stat is void.

Ok about a few days ago I was messing around on Team Two with Team Sonic. I accidently activated the glitch and I got a time of 0:04:81. I tested it to see what the actual time was that Sonic starts moving by using the previous and next frame button on anri chan. The time I found out that they start moving was 0:04:66 - 0:04:71, which proves that I did gain control of Team Sonic before the battle ended. However, I spoke to some people about this (a couple of them being admins), and some say that it is legit while others say it isn't.

I know this was a talking point not long ago but I think this needs to be sorted out properly, because I have no idea whether to submit this or not. So is my stat legit or does the rule need to be re-worded?

[Luxray]

Well this is a discussion on it, so here's my take on this rule/particular case.

As you've said, you were certain you took control before the battle ended (not from your testing with anrichan, but from what you remember of the run in particular) and by what the rule states, you cannot submit a stat unless you took control before it ended. So in my opinion its -technically- legitimate.

And just as a note for any other rules: Don't assume everyone knows the glitch when creating the rule. Make sure it is adressed properly or, if you use the glitch name in the rule, make sure the glitch is explained in some way so that those who don't know of the glitch initially, learn of its existance AND know that it is disallowed.

[Groudon]

I think the rule should be reworded (to something like "In team battles, all characters must remain in their starting positions until you gain control.").

[Luxray]

^Actually that is only as effective to this strat as the current ruling. Perhaps to make it more blunt:

"No techniques or moves from previous attempts may affect your current attempt or else your stat is void."

[flying fox]

^Actually that is only as effective to this strat as the current ruling. Perhaps to make it more blunt:

"No techniques or moves from previous attempts may affect your current attempt or else your stat is void."

I'd like to point out that we do that sort of thing in S3 with the rings. Where we die at a checkpoint in act 2 so we can gain entry into act 1 again for more rings. So could we use this rule in SH since it is different to S3 in a way?

[Luxray]

^Well i created that rule to completely replace the one under Heroes>Bosses.
It would only cover Boss Divisions in Heroes. If it covered heroes as a whole, then that sorta voids the strat made by werster in Egg Fleet - Chaotix (viewable here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsjCjXZ7zQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=KKlrhGNyO44&feature=sub) and any similar charts. The point of it is to isolate this glitch and any other potential ones of this type.

[flying fox]

^Well i created that rule to completely replace the one under Heroes>Bosses.
It would only cover Boss Divisions in Heroes. If it covered heroes as a whole, then that sorta voids the strat made by werster in Egg Fleet - Chaotix (viewable here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsjCjXZ7zQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=KKlrhGNyO44&feature=sub) and any similar charts. The point of it is to isolate this glitch and any other potential ones of this type.

Fair enough I quite like idea.

[yse]

That's a stupid idea if it's completely inconsistent with other rules. The relevant rule that it needs to be the same as is the Sonic Adventure 2 rule regarding restarting after completing a mission objective, because IIRC that's how you trigger it to occur.

[Luxray]

Then add "In team battles, " before what i've proposed? Also the SA2B rules aren't applicable as you don't complete the level to trigger the glitch. The sa2b ruling is:

You may not restart the level; by dying or otherwise, between the mission being completed and your time being saved.

This is definitely not able to be implemented here.

[Parax]

You may not hit the other team before gaining control.

Simple. Tiny rewording is all it needs.

[Luxray]

^While that does look it solves it, this glitch shows that you do remain in the starting position and do not move in that turn (and more importantly, it can be argued that you do not even touch the team during that turn). Unless the rule addresses that the player's attack cannot carry over from turns to affect current turns, then this technique is here to stay.

[magnum12]

I knew we should of had a universal rule when we were discussing a situation somewhat similar to this in S06. Perhaps we need an alternate wording such as:

1. Unless the win condition for defeating a boss is not bring its health to zero, you must bring the health of the boss to zero with an attack for a run to count. For "knock out of the ring" fight win conditions, the final blow can only be done via an attack.

[Groudon]

Technically, you are delivering the final blow via an attack.

[magnum12]

1. Unless the win condition for defeating a boss is not bring its health to zero, you must bring the health of the boss to zero with an attack on the same life. for a run to count. For "knock out of the ring" fight win conditions, the final blow can only be done via an attack on the same life. Restarting the run at any time counts as a different life.

Just tweaked the wording a bit to represent the original intentions of having to take a boss out on the same life.

[Ajavalo]

What about this?:

In a boss fight, if you die or select to restart and then the opponent gets hit for apparently no reason, the time you get is void.

I think that's the point: the boss gets hit at the beginning without you doing anything.

[Luxray]

^Too loose, very vague. Not to mention there is a reason why they get hit, and most people familiar with the glitch know this. Hence, in a very pedantic way, people who know the glitch, can perform it. Its good to see there's some effort to get a reword here.

Actually, looking back at Umbreon's rule, a little re-wording from that and you can get into:
"Both teams must remain in starting position until control is gained".
Sounds right, and solid. Any comments?

[SpinDashMaster]

Issuing a rule revision for this:

"If either team moves before you gain control of your team, your stat is void."