[SonicAD]

A programmer who can maintain the code
A referee who can arbitrate the rules, probably with people with knowledge of the games behind him
A community manager who can keep people together harmoniously
A site designer / director / all-around-visionary who can tie the team together and provide common purpose

I am going to throw my hat in the ring for the latter two roles. While there've certainly been fractures in the community, I don't think it's anything that can't be recovered from if we can get people to work together. I am highly interested in seeing TSC move forward with, hopefully, more interest in and better competition. I'm willing to dedicate the time, which, however many names might be suggested, a lot of it will come down to if they're interested, and frankly, I don't think there are all that many people who are both interested in taking charge and would do a good job of it. Thorn being most likely (as I am slightly better suited to the community manager role, but can see myself doing more and doing it right, dammit)

Otherwise, I think it's a given for GerbilSoft to stay on as the programmer if he's so willing
As to a referee, a rules committee is probably the best option, but a fairly informal one. There should be a couple people in charge overall, but discussion and input from the community is key. I would think of at least Thorn, SJ, and DsS for it, possibly others depending on interest.

[Bilan]

I nominate myself for Grand Overseer, it will be really useful experience for when I rule the World

<___<

[Spinballwizard]

AD I would've included you under community but flyby beats the shit out of you in every category, from being nice to being female *SHOT* and all that stuff.

Also doug I am flattered. I mean yeah I do care but half the time I end up being ignored.

Douglas: zomg presumption!  I can code (rusty in PHP/SQL, but will pick it up again quickly), and am trustworthy when sober.

Also I want to know  how often you are not a drunken bastard. (i.e. more or less than RPG?)

[Aitamen]

I wish I could help, but I'm far to angsty far too often to hold any power here.  I love this site, and I'm too afraid I would kill it, given the chance.

That aside, I would fully be willing to help this site become whatever its populace decides it should be.

[Stefan]

In that case, Rolken, would it be acceptable to underly a philosophy and hope someone else takes it up? I hate responsibility in all forms, and am hardly around TSC enough to actively take up an adminship role, but I think I have a pretty good philosophy on refereeing:

1.) Any trick/glitch/or exploit that provide for infinite score, infinite rings, infinite time (in the case of hot shelter-gamma) should not be allowed, ever. The existence of infinity makes competition a trial in patience rather than a trial in skill.
2.) Any trick/glitch/or exploit that removes the essence of competition should not be allowed ever. To clarify, things that uphold the essence of competition are:

a.) In a case of all else equal, the player with higher skill will come up in a better position.
b.) The actual level is relevant in terms of the final completion time/score/rings
c.) Player interaction is necessary and vital.

As an example of a trick that violates each bullet point that is disallowed under this philosophy:

a.) Pausing and restarting upon hitting the goal ring in sonic adventure 2:battle or sonic unleashed, providing for a time of .40 seconds, regardless of level.
b.) playing route 280's one hundred ring mission and turboing into the water as you collect your hundredth ring. While this maintains the deviation of higher skill/lower skill, it still disregards the entire level.
c.) using a turbo controller to play parts of the level for you

3.) Any trick/glitch/exploit/anything that does what is impossible using the game alone is not allowed. This includes slowing down an emulator, using the pal version of a game that doesn't have pal, using an action replay, or going into debug mode.

4.) All other tricks/glitches/exploits should be legitimate techniques.


Another important distinction is what charts are realistic to have, and what aren't. Tracking dumb charts is.. dumb.

To be tracked, a chart should:

1.) Have potential for competition. A ring chain chart in SSR where you get the perfect score from simply letting the level play itself is not worthy of having on TSC.

2.) Have sufficient support to be competed in. If one person wants a particular chart, and nobody else will compete in it, there's no point in having it.

3.) Not be a redundancy. We don't track sonic genesis because it's.. sonic 1 with broken physics. This one's fairly self-explanatory


As for the ways to deal with cheaters:

Clearly illegitimate statistics should be deleted and perpetrators banned. Having a knowledgeable player in a particular game that says "hey, you can't get 600 rings in green hill 1" is vital to the success of this.

People who have been accused of bsery should be dealt with politely and respectfully; I can think of a particular case where Chao Fan was belittled for several "impossible stats", when she had in fact just discovered that you can go beyond the goal ring in sonic heroes. Maintaining a mature attitude while accusing people also improves the community and makes people more likely to stay at the site.

that's... about it. if someone wants to undertake that philosophy, they'd be my personal pick for referee. I don't personally want to do it; I might have time now that it's summer, but when school picks up I'll be a poor admin. I just honestly can't see myself around long enough to be a good choice for rule-based-adminship.

EDIT: S1GG was a typo for genesis, thanks minus.

[EngiNerd]

Allow me to remind you, Stefan, that we also may need a fix for differences between systems (yes, I did just bring THAT up again) primarily for your rule 2A: all else being equal, someone with a DC will do better on City Escape rings than someone with a GC.  I've proposed a programming fix for this in the past, but GS usually counters with something to the effect of "too much work and I'm too lazy".  <_<

EDIT: And I hope you mean Sonic Genesis, not Sonic 1 Game Gear - we DO track that, because it's MUCH different.

[Magnezone]

this is my vision for tsc's future

[Thorn]

Stefan I do think that the philosophy you underlined is what a good 95% of TSC already practices. I'm looking through your post for anything that might've been argued against at some point in time, but as far as I can tell, you've pretty much outlined the group consensus.

I do, however, think we are appropriately hard on BSers. What needs to change in that regard is that people need to stay out of discussions that they don't belong in. If an admin points out that a certain statistic is fake, the entire site doesn't need to post in the topic to cite examples of other things they find impossible -- that discussion should stay between the admins and the "cheater". Likewise, if players of a certain game group together for a BS call, a person who isn't familiar with the game has no right to be posting. Perhaps some sort of permissions system could be implemented for that board so that the admins can stop certain agitators from posting.

For the people who have been bringing up the old Rules Committee: Judging by the old logs, the people involved were myself, RPG, yse, SM, Achlys, douglas, and Stefan. MK seems to have participated in a later meeting.

The other thing I'd like to see is for If I Had a (Ban) Hammer users, who are by default given low-level mod privileges, to be given just a smidge more power so that they can actually moderate. >_> They can modify posts, but not delete them. While this allows them to be funny, it doesn't deter the original poster from recreating the same post. At the very least, it's quicker to click Delete over a series of spam posts than it is to modify each one's contents.

Subsites need to be cleaned out under one of Stefan's rules: there's no support for competition anymore. In particular, TUSC is a complete mess, what with some of the games on the site actually being outdated.

Probably the biggest thing that needs to be done on TSC is everything. We get a new admin, he/she cleans up what needs to be cleaned for a while... and then he/she gets bored and we go back to nothing getting done again. I don't really think there's a way to fix this --  you can't change people -- but Zeupar, if you're reading this, put up the damned Rivals 2 rule already. This goes back to the admins being somewhat removed from the competition, thusly not caring very much on occasion.

[SonicAD]

Probably the biggest thing that needs to be done on TSC is everything. We get a new admin, he/she cleans up what needs to be cleaned for a while... and then he/she gets bored and we go back to nothing getting done again. I don't really think there's a way to fix this --  you can't change people -- but Zeupar, if you're reading this, put up the damned Rivals 2 rule already. This goes back to the admins being somewhat removed from the competition, thusly not caring very much on occasion.

This is really, really the key. If even the admins don't care, then why should anyone else care? There needs to be someone in charge who cares enough about the site and the competition and the community to push it forward positively, not just a "meh, I'll do it later" attitude.

[General Throatstomper]

I think Rolken means that he wants applicants to outline general philosophies concerning TSC's direction instead of something specific like an outline of prospective rules; the fundamental question is "where should TSC go from here?".

For whatever merit others see in my opinion, I don't think TSC is sustainable as a competition site because we don't have a large enough pool of active players (or if you want to look at this inverted, we lack sufficiently active players in the core community). And why should we expect for new members to join to replenish our numbers, mature, and improve the site dynamic? I could write extensively on this, but I don't think anybody would dispute my logic so I'll just segue to my one original point with my earlier argument as its basis. Who really cares about the competition in TSC as anything but a social function? If people admire the community itself over competition, the focus of the site, do we really need to maintain competition as our primary function? Users wouldn't leave TSC if it became a general networking grounds, because we're there right now with games of Mafia, iSketch, Settlers, Toulouse, etc. Considering this, we might perhaps become something more fluid.

It's a jump from what I said before, completely separate from my reasoning, but I suggest using TSC as a launching point for other act ivies. Maybe we could construct a group schedule, and use the site as a means of organization for doing other things. Think of this as TSC's community coordinating events: several people Brawling as dictated by the schedule, transitioning to an organized debate, later following a groupwatch of a movie, and so on. It's just centralizing what we do already.

[Thorn]

^ We already have tools to centralize activities between multiple TSCers... namely, the IRC channel and the forum. When you say that the competition is unsustainable and becoming a small part of the site, it makes it seem like TSC is just a site where people gather to play online games and talk about their lives... oh, and we happen to like Sonic games, too. What's funny is that this is already the case, but advertising it that way doesn't draw people in. People already have communities they participate in for hanging with friends online; to get the smart ones here, we need to have something specific that piques their interest.

...oh wait, we do have that in the rankings! Even if they're not extremely active, they're expansive and permanent. So anybody who comes here having just gotten a shiny new copy on Unleashed sees 50 people to compete against, not "oh here's 50 people on a chart, only seven of which are actually trying". Just like you said, it's a social function. I don't think that means it can't be our defining feature, though. All communities have some sort of defining feature: Sonic Retro specializes in technical aspects of Sonic games, but the frequency at which people post in the Engineering and Reverse Engineering Forum is much lower than the rate at which people post in the "talk about anything" forums. Sonic Cage Dome and Sonic Stadium have large communities as their draw, so it's easy to jump right in or act anonymous if that's more your speed. Chaos Sonic Forum allows for fan fiction, sonicresearch.org allows for technical discussion in a small community... and we have rankings. So... yeah.

I think the focus we've had on rulings and cleaning house and why we feel we could maintain the site says quite a bit about our "philosophy": we like what we have, and we simply want to polish it. Our last attempt to create a new "direction" for TSC was in the form of subsites, which fell flat for a number of reasons. If we further what we have now and address problems as they arise, we'll be fine.

[Magnezone]

Who really cares about the competition in TSC as anything but a social function?

How about if you recognize that your TAS seems to need a lot of work seeing as someone on this site clearly has your TASed speedrun beat? Or maybe you'd like to see how skillfully we are able to play these games? It is clear to regulars that this site also has a social function via the chatroom/forum, but if you're only here to make friends, then clearly theres a good bit of site here you wouldn't be using as a member. I doubt it's in the site's best interests to turn it into a community that caters to itself and only itself.

Perhaps this site inspires people to play the games more often than debating on a logical reason as to why theres 6 chaos emeralds in sonic 1 and 7 in the rest except for Sonic the Fighers which has 8 or why Marine's existence has a point. That's what makes this site stand out among Sonic fansites. The point of it at its core is to play Sonic games. Not travel the world internets in search of Sonic-the-Hedgehog related news and posting that the next Sonic game is set in a place called Pizza Land and that Sonic Team is definitely reinventing Sonic the Hedgehog with this one, or typing a six-page essay on why Sega isn't cool anymore, or make animations of Knuckles flipping off rainbows, or concocting a team of individuals to program an amazing game that Sega will sue the creators of because it's so awesome. Given the sites features, a comprehensive list of people's best statistics for any given Sonic game (that matters), a record of how all players statistics progressed, a ranking system that encourages people to improve, and a plethora of all kinds of media discussing all the ins and outs of all different Sonic games, I think it's pretty clear where this site stands among all the others.

If our primary concern is to "recruit" new members, then clearly we need to do a few things:
- Prove that our system of honor works, or alter it somehow. When a member like smizzla who was #1 sitewide gets banned for cheating, it clearly raises serious doubts about the validity of our process and doesn't help at all when people come here and are wondering if someone can post kind-of-real records and get away with it.
- Enhance the new-user accessibility. And I don't mean wheelchair accessibility. I mean, if some dude comes here from Sonic Stadium, clearly they're gonna be like "wow this site looks ancient". I like the themes as much as the next guy, but for the new user, they're probably not as exciting as they used to be. :(
- Fix the irregularities of the site. Like the overlapping rule standards of some of the games in which we allow Advance 2 score scalping and don't allow roll-comboing a badnik in Lava Reef 2 for an incredibly high yet just-as-finite score.
- Make the subsites less thoroughly neglected. I mean there's New Records on TUSC from April. :(

Once all that is completed by whoever, then we have a better chance at enslaving the minds of poor Sonic gamers who figure that this place is the best place to compete, because they happen to be right.

[Magnezone]

also

I'll no longer be taking any part in TSC.

too late! we have your constitution to follow which states that you have awesome to do with TSC

and it's also too late to remove it because i have it saved to my computer

[EngiNerd]

GASP
Douglas has posted in this thread multiple times and it's SKYLIGHTS who wins?
Obligatory AHHHHHH***Minus bricked

[douglas]

If we're delving into philosophies, I shall outline mine.

TSC was at it's best when there's been some sort of sitewide focus on something.  Remember the buzz about the place when the Emerald Challenges were on, or the Olympics, or for the marathons?  I'm betting there was a definite uptick in both membership and submissions when they were happening (particularly the ECs through SCD's involvement).  I can't speak to how effective the leagues have been, having been a fail and not participated, but the same thing applies.  The tricky thing is keeping them fresh, but we should have one every couple of months, and we should pimp it all over the intarwebs.

Another thing that makes TSC teh awesomes that you don't see so much any more is rivalries - when two or more players are going at a level or even a whole game hammer-and-tongs.  I'd like to do something to stimulate this, and my plan is a Rivalries feature, whereby you and your rival can create a goal with a deadline - say "Douglas vs SpinballWizard, Sadv2 Ice Paradise 2 (Sonic), Best Time at 02/08/2009 00:00UTC" - then the winner gets a trophy in a section similar to 'Awards' (you could also have a Random Rivalry on the front page).  If people wanted, you could extend this to setting personal challenges for yourself or others, but rivalries would be the priority.

In terms of rules enforcement, I think maybe we're a bit too quick to jump down new players' throats, and sometimes BS calls can get a bit personal.  Personally, I think the only people allowed to call BS should be the Rules Committee, and if you had a suspicion, it could go through them - that way they can explain the situation (emphasising that it's not a witch hunt, just that we want clean charts so everyone can enjoy competing) and what kind of proof is required without it descending into a snark-fest.  The idea would be that only RC members could start Leadership Disputes topics (with accompanying PM) and only they and the accused should post in them.

As for admin apathy, I'd cure that with more involvement from the RC or Community Leaders as detailled in my other post.

Right, that's probably enough to digest for one post.   Next time I shall have a shiny graphics like SkyLights!  Only without Tikal.  Ever.






As an aside, this kind of discussion is exactly what I had in mind when I suggested an election (rather than some banal personality content which I'd win easily on account of my awesome <_<).  We should totally have one - my guess is SonicAD and Thorn would contest it, with SkyLights (Tikal Appreciation Party) and possibly RPG (Getting Drunk And Playing WoW Party) as comedy entries.

[EngiNerd]

If we're delving into philosophies, I shall outline mine.

TSC was at it's best when there's been some sort of sitewide focus on something.  Remember the buzz about the place when the Emerald Challenges were on, or the Olympics, or for the marathons?  I'm betting there was a definite uptick in both membership and submissions when they were happening (particularly the ECs through SCD's involvement).  I can't speak to how effective the leagues have been, having been a fail and not participated, but the same thing applies.  The tricky thing is keeping them fresh, but we should have one every couple of months, and we should pimp it all over the intarwebs.

Very much agreed.  I like this point, and you're right, we need to keep teh buzz going.

Another thing that makes TSC teh awesomes that you don't see so much any more is rivalries - when two or more players are going at a level or even a whole game hammer-and-tongs.  I'd like to do something to stimulate this, and my plan is a Rivalries feature, whereby you and your rival can create a goal with a deadline - say "Douglas vs SpinballWizard, Sadv2 Ice Paradise 2 (Sonic), Best Time at 02/08/2009 00:00UTC" - then the winner gets a trophy in a section similar to 'Awards' (you could also have a Random Rivalry on the front page).  If people wanted, you could extend this to setting personal challenges for yourself or others, but rivalries would be the priority.

STOP THE PRESSES
DOUGLAS WINS AGAIN
HOLY HAMBURGER THIS IS AWESOME
I'm not kidding.  This is one of the best ideas I've ever heard.

In terms of rules enforcement, I think maybe we're a bit too quick to jump down new players' throats, and sometimes BS calls can get a bit personal.  Personally, I think the only people allowed to call BS should be the Rules Committee, and if you had a suspicion, it could go through them - that way they can explain the situation (emphasising that it's not a witch hunt, just that we want clean charts so everyone can enjoy competing) and what kind of proof is required without it descending into a snark-fest.  The idea would be that only RC members could start Leadership Disputes topics (with accompanying PM) and only they and the accused should post in them.

As for admin apathy, I'd cure that with more involvement from the RC or Community Leaders as detailled in my other post.

Agreed with all.  It DOES strike me that certain individuals on this board aren't very civilized when it comes to dealing with this.  Is there any way we can make this private though?  I'd say that outsiders shouldn't even be able to READ those topics.  Nobody needs to know someone was even called into question ... right?

As an aside, this kind of discussion is exactly what I had in mind when I suggested an election (rather than some banal personality content which I'd win easily on account of my awesome <_<).  We should totally have one - my guess is SonicAD and Thorn would contest it, with SkyLights (Tikal Appreciation Party) and possibly RPG (Getting Drunk And Playing WoW Party) as comedy entries.

Plus we must add write-in candidates.  Question: how long will said individual's term last?  <_<

[Bilan]

I was going to quote what ended up as point 2 in Minus's post to say that I think that is a fantastic idea.

[Luxray]

TSC was at it's best when there's been some sort of sitewide focus on something.  Remember the buzz about the place when the Emerald Challenges were on, or the Olympics, or for the marathons?  I'm betting there was a definite uptick in both membership and submissions when they were happening (particularly the ECs through SCD's involvement).  I can't speak to how effective the leagues have been, having been a fail and not participated, but the same thing applies.  The tricky thing is keeping them fresh, but we should have one every couple of months, and we should pimp it all over the intarwebs.

Another thing that makes TSC teh awesomes that you don't see so much any more is rivalries - when two or more players are going at a level or even a whole game hammer-and-tongs.  I'd like to do something to stimulate this, and my plan is a Rivalries feature, whereby you and your rival can create a goal with a deadline - say "Douglas vs SpinballWizard, Sadv2 Ice Paradise 2 (Sonic), Best Time at 02/08/2009 00:00UTC" - then the winner gets a trophy in a section similar to 'Awards' (you could also have a Random Rivalry on the front page).  If people wanted, you could extend this to setting personal challenges for yourself or others, but rivalries would be the priority.

I was recently thinking about this idea. We could extend it further and have inter-site competition battles between here SCD and (god forgive me for saying this) TSS *shot*. Also an idea about clans. Groups of about 4 or 5 compete and strategize agaisnt other clans and face-off. This could also be competitive between players with points doled out for wins, and records. Rivalries also is a very good idea. It may bring out more competition.

In terms of rules enforcement, I think maybe we're a bit too
quick to jump down new players' throats, and sometimes BS calls can get a bit personal.  Personally, I think the only people allowed to call BS should be the Rules Committee, and if you had a suspicion, it could go through them - that way they can explain the situation (emphasising that it's not a witch hunt, just that we want clean charts so everyone can enjoy competing) and what kind of proof is required without it descending into a snark-fest.  The idea would be that only RC members could start Leadership Disputes topics (with accompanying PM) and only they and the accused should post in them.

Was i not stressing this a month ago? We need order in and structure in this area. and yes. There should only be a selected few in charge of this area.

[Aitamen]

Personally, I think the leaderboard disputes page shows how adamantly we despise cheaters and idiocy in general.  I don't know about anyone else, but for every gaming site I'm a part of, I PM the upper echelons of the populace and see if they've any interest in TSC or any of it's subsites.  I had a couple people with skill who come here and read through the LD and realized that when I say we aim to play the game on a whole new level, as well as keep our community to a relative pristine, that he decided (after doing a bit of research into how BS most of those things are), that he wanted to join us.

sadly, I cannot tell who among us IS this individual, as he won't let me speak his name, but suffice it to say that LD is the reason he's here.

[Thorn]

Strongly voicing that we hate BSing isn't the problem. The problem is that people get involved in BS calls that they shouldn't need to. Consider the case of SonicKudos, who started explaining his Eternal Engine time by saying he spindashes in a set place. We didn't need anybody to say "hey, this level isn't played as Sonic"... he can back himself into a corner on his own. Yet the topic gets people throwing other false stats at him other than the one the topic concerns, and people telling him how to get proof of his stats. This topic could've been handled in three posts.

Admin: Please explain your Eternal Engine time.
SonicKudos: I spindashed and [rest of post here].
Admin: You made that up on the spot. Banned.

If we keep the BS posts small and civil, then we won't need to hear any more new member cries of "I'm scared to submit, I might be banned". The mob mentality makes us look like jerks, even if we are 100% justified.

[SonicAD]

Plus we must add write-in candidates.  Question: how long will said individual's term last?  <_<

No, we definitely must not have write-ins. This is not a popularity contest., and it's probably not even a vote in the one person, one vote sense (I expect Rolken will end up having a large say, as at the very least his opinions are highly respected here, and, well, it's still his site, he can do what he wants with it). There's no point asking someone to run TSC if they don't want to. If a few people set themselves up as wanting to, then it can be settled between them in a reasonable manner.

What I want to see from the person who is, basically, taking charge of TSC, is someone who wants to do it, is capable of doing it, and has the support of the community behind him or her. They need to try to repair some of the divisions in the TSC community right now, and try make it attractive to new people. They need to encourage more excitement in the competition (which I love douglas's idea for, btw).

It's disappointing that Rolken is stepping down, but we need to use this as an opportunity to breathe new life into TSC and all get back to having fun!

[Zeupar]

I am quite sad about this. :'(

Rolken, we were talking about your great ideas to improve TSC a few weeks ago. You said that you would add those new features to the site gradually. How is it that you have changed your mind in such a short period of time?

[Spinballwizard]

Plus we must add write-in candidates.  Question: how long will said individual's term last?  <_<

No, we definitely must not have write-ins. This is not a popularity contest., and it's probably not even a vote in the one person, one vote sense (I expect Rolken will end up having a large say, as at the very least his opinions are highly respected here, and, well, it's still his site, he can do what he wants with it).

You know that any vote is going to come down to a popularity contest...

Also I too fully endorse this rivalries thing. It might actually get me back into competing maybe. I don't know. The main problems that TSC's had though can be summed up thusly:

1. New Sonic games suck in post people's opinions. Now granted I happen to like what they did with the Wii/PS2 version of Unleashed (as a matter of fact, before I got bored of it I did actually compete in that. (I almost have a blueless times chart. The only other 3D game where I have that feat is lolheroes.) But the main thing is that the new suck games usually have some quickly discovered bug/glitch that breaks competition right away. Speaking of which...

2. The old games that actually are good are mostly broken to the point where times nearly match their TAS equivalents. Once it was discovered that a ton of S1 levels were destroyed beyond destruction due to the new magic wall-zips (which started with SB3 and MZ2), frankly it ruined any hope I had of competing. I'm not a fan of huge glitches like that, and I've made it known. But either way, unless something gets broken even more, there's little hope for competition on that aspect.

I do think flyby's leagues are a step in the right direction. While interest did wane towards the end, a few things might fix that. (One idea I just thought about was grouping players by their sitewides and having rankings based off that. Proposed: Orange Up, Yellow, Green, Blue based on average sitewide.) Another thing might be working on reviving something similar to the SA2B challenges of old. With the embargo method created for the league, it's quite possible to have a "daily challenge" where submissions are open for that day only. I for one think it'd be pretty cool.

Plus doing random stupid shit has always been a pastime of mine. >_>

(Sidenote: I need to get around to making a vid of MP1K doing that at one point...)

[SonicKnuckles]

Strongly voicing that we hate BSing isn't the problem. The problem is that people get involved in BS calls that they shouldn't need to. Consider the case of SonicKudos, who started explaining his Eternal Engine time by saying he spindashes in a set place. We didn't need anybody to say "hey, this level isn't played as Sonic"... he can back himself into a corner on his own. Yet the topic gets people throwing other false stats at him other than the one the topic concerns, and people telling him how to get proof of his stats. This topic could've been handled in three posts.

Admin: Please explain your Eternal Engine time.
SonicKudos: I spindashed and [rest of post here].
Admin: You made that up on the spot. Banned.

If we keep the BS posts small and civil, then we won't need to hear any more new member cries of "I'm scared to submit, I might be banned". The mob mentality makes us look like jerks, even if we are 100% justified.

Well I only have to say to people who think that... don't post false times and you won't be banned. It's not like you guys ban people without a reason.

Oh and to this list of things that could be here on TSC I'd like to add that a way to incorporate the newer players as well as not alienating the older member. Like the group harmony thing.

[Bilan]

Seeing as Rolken set the ban but doesn't want to discuss why, and neither does anyone else with chatroom power and the knowledge seemingly:

Hey Stefan why are you banned from irc?

[yoshifan]

Well, I can't think of anything useful or inspirational to add to the discussion, so I'll just reply to the topic.

- I'm currently halfway through a computer science major, so I know some programming.  Not impressive, but I am willing to offer some light help here if that's desirable.  I agree that while Gerbil is doing a great job with the code and maintenance, it's inconsiderate to leave him with the entire burden here - coding is time consuming, no matter how you look at it.

- As a fairly experienced TSC member and semi-power user, I will try to help out with site functions more often.  Things like reading and replying to rules discussions, helping with leaderboard dispute cases, and so on.  I am also interested in making the site more friendly to newcomers, so if I can think of anything along those lines then I will try to contribute.  That's the extent of what I think I can do; I'm not a leader of any sort.

- I still plan to do what I can with the Mario Center, but I guess this isn't the best place to go in detail about that.

[HolyGGirl]

I think Rolken means that he wants applicants to outline general philosophies concerning TSC's direction instead of something specific like an outline of prospective rules; the fundamental question is "where should TSC go from here?".

For whatever merit others see in my opinion, I don't think TSC is sustainable as a competition site because we don't have a large enough pool of active players (or if you want to look at this inverted, we lack sufficiently active players in the core community). And why should we expect for new members to join to replenish our numbers, mature, and improve the site dynamic? I could write extensively on this, but I don't think anybody would dispute my logic so I'll just segue to my one original point with my earlier argument as its basis. Who really cares about the competition in TSC as anything but a social function? If people admire the community itself over competition, the focus of the site, do we really need to maintain competition as our primary function? Users wouldn't leave TSC if it became a general networking grounds, because we're there right now with games of Mafia, iSketch, Settlers, Toulouse, etc. Considering this, we might perhaps become something more fluid.

It's a jump from what I said before, completely separate from my reasoning, but I suggest using TSC as a launching point for other act ivies. Maybe we could construct a group schedule, and use the site as a means of organization for doing other things. Think of this as TSC's community coordinating events: several people Brawling as dictated by the schedule, transitioning to an organized debate, later following a groupwatch of a movie, and so on. It's just centralizing what we do already.

I agree

[Taillow]

Okay, let's put Dhaos in charge of the site.

NOT WHILE I STILL HAVE BREATH IN MY BODY!

* Taillow shot

Also I'd love to add something constructive to this but I really can't, aside from I'd probably be the go-to guy for Advance 3 and not much else.

[Spinballwizard]

I agree

Rule 1 about posting. Two-word posts contribute nothing. You obviously don't know what's going on.

In theory I can program too, but I don't really know PHP at all. (I'm a software engineer, not a coder.) This doesn't mean that I can't do some conceptual work though. Most of the base is already done, but in the case of random new functionality (my challenge suggestion is a good example) I can come up with a base to leave someone else with the boring chore of coding.

[Thorn]

I agree

Rule 1 about posting. Two-word posts contribute nothing. You obviously don't know what's going on.

I agree

With regards to programming, I think most of us that are volunteering are smart enough to learn, at the very least. I just can't say "o hi I know some 68k ASM, can I help design your website?":P If Gerbil wants help, I hope he's prepared to give free lessons, because I don't know anybody here who's familiar with PHP.

Since everybody's detailing how they'd bring life into TSC with new features and whatnot, I think we need to get Tournament Central up and running again. The old tournaments got people competing for a while. Granted, they were silly and lost interest near the end... but nobody got pissed off about them like they did as the Leagues (both RPG's and flyby's, for different reasons) drew to a close. The biggest follies with the tournaments and leagues was that they took too long from start to finish, and the challenges were arbitrary what with not everybody doing the same tasks. I've had an idea in mind for a more concrete tournament basis that addresses both of these issues and still plays to everybody's different strengths at some point throughout, and given the recent talk of "philosophy" and "site direction", I will probably attempt to implement it shortly. Hopefully, it doesn't interfere with the Summer League, but interest in that seems a bit low due to waning interest from the prior League. :(