Sonic Central > Rules Revisions

About Sonic Unleashed PS3/360 night scores...

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Thorn:
I'm confused. We operate on good faith about respawning rings in Sonic 1, and on respawning point-giving objects/enemies in most all of the Genesis Sonic games. We placed down rules to cap such things in Sonic Adventure 1/2 as well, and in Sonic Rivals 1/2. So why do we need to completely scrap charts for this? Is it really impossible to set a cutoff point after which we say "okay, you can't spam this more"? Or are we just catering to idiots that don't read the rules?

Yet, even though getting official updates for the game disallows certain time-saving glitches, we continue to allow said glitches on the charts instead of adding them to the rules as banned. Why in the world are we banning combos that can be spammed in the normal game instead of just capping them, but allowing things that Sonic Team has since disallowed?

tl;dr: The way you guys are designing the rules for this game is completely bass-ackwards compared to the rest of TSC.

Parax:

--- Quote from: Thorn on June 13, 2009, 01:40:58 pm ---Is it really impossible to set a cutoff point after which we say "okay, you can't spam this more"?
--- End quote ---

Not spamming something that happens every time you fight an enemy in a game that is based on combat isn't very easy. A cutoff point would still need to be high because with low strength it'll take quite a bit to kill enemies in later levels even if you aren't trying to scalp, leading to higher combo bonuses (and this couldn't be banned because there are probably a lot of people who'd want to submit stats they got on their first playthrough; scores are still presumably broken anyway though, just takes longer), and things like big mothers/wizards spawning enemies and wizards healing other enemies is something that could end up adding to your score but is completely out of your control. Between that and the fact that you can't even see your combo score until you finish the level makes a cap a bit hard to implement.


--- Quote ---Yet, even though getting official updates for the game disallows certain time-saving glitches, we continue to allow said glitches on the charts instead of adding them to the rules as banned. Why in the world are we banning combos that can be spammed in the normal game instead of just capping them, but allowing things that Sonic Team has since disallowed?
--- End quote ---

This is really no different than a version difference in any game; just more fair because all you have to do is unpatch the game to get the version with the glitch, without having to buy another game/console. Sonic Team has disallowed accessing the extra capsule in Final Egg since SA1, or some of the old strats for Casinopolis. Are you basically suggesting that we should ban every trick that doesn't work on every version of a game?

EngiNerd:
You can't get Empire City on the Wii/PS2 version.  Therefore it should be banned.

Thorn:

--- Quote from: Paraxade on June 14, 2009, 07:59:53 am ---Not spamming something that happens every time you fight an enemy in a game that is based on combat isn't very easy. A cutoff point would still need to be high because with low strength it'll take quite a bit to kill enemies in later levels even if you aren't trying to scalp, leading to higher combo bonuses (and this couldn't be banned because there are probably a lot of people who'd want to submit stats they got on their first playthrough; scores are still presumably broken anyway though, just takes longer), and things like big mothers/wizards spawning enemies and wizards healing other enemies is something that could end up adding to your score but is completely out of your control. Between that and the fact that you can't even see your combo score until you finish the level makes a cap a bit hard to implement.

--- End quote ---

For a low-strength run, the points earned by low combos is somewhere near the amount of time bonus you're losing not killing enemies faster with a higher strength. In order to really get large amounts of extra points, you *have* to spam something. You have to get a combo of 101 to even earn 1000 points. There's a clear distinction between deliberately going for combo bonuses and getting them accidently.


--- Quote from: Paraxade on June 14, 2009, 07:59:53 am ---This is really no different than a version difference in any game; just more fair because all you have to do is unpatch the game to get the version with the glitch, without having to buy another game/console. Sonic Team has disallowed accessing the extra capsule in Final Egg since SA1, or some of the old strats for Casinopolis. Are you basically suggesting that we should ban every trick that doesn't work on every version of a game?
--- End quote ---

Well, we've already begun --  there's a sparse few glitches that work on Sonic & Knuckles Collection and Sonic Jam that don't work in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and said glitches are "unofficially banned" (note: this isn't what the "functional changes to level layout" clause is referring to -- there's much bigger alterations to certain aspects of Sonic Jam to which this applies). We don't track Special Stages for Sonic 3D Blast because they differ between versions. A funny exception to the rules is Sonic 1 8-bit: there are different level layouts between the versions of the game, and we track them both on the same charts.

If you want to try to equate patched and unpatched to different versions of the game, then I reserve the right to submit to Sonic 1 charts using Sonic Genesis for Game Boy Advance, in the Original Mode that does not contain the Spin Dash.

EngiNerd:

--- Quote from: Thorn on June 14, 2009, 02:26:58 pm ---A funny exception to the rules is Sonic 1 8-bit: there are different level layouts between the versions of the game, and we track them both on the same charts.

--- End quote ---
I *still* wonder why we haven't done this one differently yet.  Particularly now that we have SU as an example.

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