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"The Speed Zone" -- webpage on Sonic 2D/3D design differences


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Offline Thorn

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http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/nsssp:index

This was posted over on Retro and it's worth a read. It's your standard page of arguments for what's wrong with Sonic today, only it contrasts said problems with what made similar things in the classics seem great, and it acknowledges the need for flashiness in a modern world where a game has to work damn hard to make up for the sin of using a color palette aside from brown, beige, gray, and black. Too bad much of the video footage doesn't load.

I can safely say I'm glad I read it. I'd already had a lot of those concepts in my mind due to designing a Sonic 2 hack, but the ones I either learned for the first time or was reminded of will definitely come in handy.

EDIT: The entirety of the site is here, but a recent argument in chat made The Speed Zone seem the most relevant.
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Offline Stefan

Re: "The Speed Zone" -- webpage on Sonic 2D/3D design differences
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 01:37:25 am »
http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/nsssp:speed-differences

I have to disagree a -lot- with their "speed ratings" on the s06 video. The ratings in turn make 3d sonic seem far more of an overclock/top haven than it really is (though it certainly has its fair share of that). Using the videos as an argument isn't very fair in the first place, either. One could try to demonstrate the opposite effect by speedrunning mh1 and taking his time on the s06 level to make it appear like 2d sonic is a more repetitive gameplay. Basically, I don't like this part of the website.

Offline Aitamen

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Re: "The Speed Zone" -- webpage on Sonic 2D/3D design differences
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 05:29:02 am »
really interesting site, but I personally disagree with them on a great many points...

sadly, I'm too lazy to post all my disagreements, so I'll just chalk it up to "any person can be smart, but people are always fucking stupid"
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Offline Crowbar

Re: "The Speed Zone" -- webpage on Sonic 2D/3D design differences
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 09:02:35 am »
http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/nsssp:speed-differences

I have to disagree a -lot- with their "speed ratings" on the s06 video. The ratings in turn make 3d sonic seem far more of an overclock/top haven than it really is (though it certainly has its fair share of that). Using the videos as an argument isn't very fair in the first place, either. One could try to demonstrate the opposite effect by speedrunning mh1 and taking his time on the s06 level to make it appear like 2d sonic is a more repetitive gameplay. Basically, I don't like this part of the website.

While I agree that their classifications are a bit skewed, I think the point is still entirely valid.
The player was actually going out of his way a bit to do what you mentioned (e.g. using that red spring in MH1) and the argument still stands. However, even if he did speedrun MH1 and go slow on the Sonic 06 level, I think you'd still find a predominance of accelerating/normal speeds in the former and top/overclock speeds in the latter, simply because the level designs force it, no matter what the player tries to do. You pretty much can't progress in a modern Sonic game without constantly going through speed pads and semi-scripted sections, unless you go out of your way to break the level (e.g. Windy Valley 2).

I thought the section on integrating obstacles was very observant. It actually was a very clever aspect of the level design of the classic games, and so subtle that I never even noticed it until this article pointed it out.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 09:08:01 am by Crowbar »

Offline Stefan

Re: "The Speed Zone" -- webpage on Sonic 2D/3D design differences
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 01:43:15 pm »
Another inconsistency in the website:

http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/nsscc:navigation

Despite pages of criticizing modern sonic for "forcing sonic along a path at high speeds", one of the solutions offered to the "multiple routes" problem is just that.

"Accelerator machines

Accelerator machines pull the player towards the direction of the goal at high speeds."

So, yeah. I agree with a lot of this stuff, but there's some other stuff that sounds sketchy.

Offline Thorn

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Re: "The Speed Zone" -- webpage on Sonic 2D/3D design differences
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 02:20:23 pm »
^ In that case, the accelerator functions better when you have more rings. It's a reward mechanic of scripted movement rather than the usual forced scripted movement.
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