[Rolken]

This poll decides how the rankings work henceforth and forever.

[Rolken]

OK, looks like the poll isn't very decisive. So if anybody wants to take up the soapbox and tell us why it should be a certain way, go straight ahead. I don't think SM plays it and I don't know enough about it yet to make a good judgment.

[Taco]

Honestly,

I think that the best way to do this would be by team name (unbreakable bond, etc)

simply because of this

If you have it organized by leader, and have any partner you want, then most of the times will be around the same, because there are some major advantages one character might have to another. tails and cream can fly, knuckles can fly, and sonic can run

so look at it this way

Route99 Act 1
sonic
tails
knuckes
cream
amy

say the level was a running level. then the times would probably be the same, because the partner system would end up like this

sonic, tails
tails, sonic
knuckles, sonic
cream, sonic
amy, sonic

now say that the level was perhaps a flying level

then the system might end up like this

sonic, tails
tails, sonic
knuckles, tails
cream, sonic
amy, tails

I cant really say who the player would choose if they were the flying type, but youg get what I'm saying

I believe the other way is better

Route99
sonic tails
sonic knuckles
cream amy
forgot this team
ok

if this was the case, it would work out much better, because the teams are set up pretty evenly. If everyone could just FLY through the level, it would make it much easier, but this obviously isn't the case. it makes it even and fair, and you can still make a decision, deciding on who the leader is, and who the partner is of the two characters

as for ok, ok is kind of like your lucky break. You simply just choose anyone combo you want.

so I dont know about you, but this looks like it will be alot more fun and challening if we have it set up this way, rather then everybody can almost fly or run at superfast speed or swim really fast underwater, etc

this way, not everyone will be able to fly, or run super fast, or swim fast underwater, and this calls for different techniques and routes to be used, making time attacking alot more fun instead of dull. besides, once you unlock the path for one team, you most likely wont be able to use the same path with another team, while as if you were doing it by leader, everyone would probably be able to take that path, at a SLIGHTLY different pace

ok, well that's my opinion. I'm a horrible organizer, so let me know if you didn't understand anything. :)

[SprintGod]

The problem with team names is that even something as minor as switching the characters around results in significant changes.

I'd prefer it if:
# When submitting a time, you specify the Level, the Characters used, and the Time.
# The main table displays all the times, basically ignoring the characters used.
# 20 more tables that show times for each pair of characters (basically filtering the main table so it doesn't show certain times)
# Maybe a few more that depend on Team Names, Lead Characters or Following Characters

The main table would be the major factor in deciding rankings (e.g. having all the fastest times gets you 50%)
The rest of the game % can then be split across the rest. (or maybe they could be worthless in terms of ranking, but the ability to filter the main table to show only certain character groups would still be quite valuable)

That way people will be mostly competing for the fastest overall times, but you still get credit if you set a record for a certain character combination.

[SadisticMystic]

# 20 more tables that show times for each pair of characters (basically filtering the main table so it doesn't show certain times)
# Maybe a few more that depend on Team Names, Lead Characters or Following Characters

That way people will be mostly competing for the fastest overall times, but you still get credit if you set a record for a certain character combination.

Explain how this is at all feasible.

[SprintGod]

Filters.

Instead of having several tables, you simply use the complete table with bits missing.

Making the filtered tables apply to rankings would be difficult though... Probably not worth the effort.

[Rolken]

It's easy for you to say "filters" as a theoretical construct, but that has no relation to the actual database structure. To implement such a thing would require rewrites of large portions of the code.

That doesn't mean it's out of the question, though; good ideas are worth spending time to put into practice. However, I don't think anyone else wants it. First of all, it's just too much, and secondly, if any credit at all were given there'd surely be competition for it, and newbies wouldn't stand much more of a chance anyway - they'd just have an overwhelming number of fields to fill, while the top five or six players would get bigger portions of records  instead of the top two or three taking it. Any "weak" table would surely be snapped up by one of the more regular players.

I'm leaning towards basing on teams at the moment...

[Shadow Wedge]

I don't think that team name would work too well, as there are so few teams and changing the lead and secondary characters can change the path you take a lot...
Having twenty different categories makes it boring because the secondary character may not change how one plays the level very much... Plus there would be too many categories per level. (There's what, four levels per zone? That's 4 * 20 * 7 + 1 = 561 different categories... I don't think anyone would have the patience for that...)
Basing it off of lead character cuts down on the number of categories (4 * 5 * 7 + 1 = 141) and would simplify the choices... It would make it more interesting to find a good combination that takes advantage of the level, but one wouldn't have to use every single combination to get a high spot on the board either total or for the level...
That's my two cents...

Summary: I'd rather it was based off of the lead character.

[Ghost]

Explain how this is at all feasible

this is hard to understand if you dont know database but can be like this:

_game class table_
database id
game name - sonic1, sonicadvance3...
competition class (link competition class table database id)

_competition class table_
database id
competition name - time, freestyle, rings...
level class (link level class table database id)

_level class table_
database id
level name
character class (link character class table database id)

_character class table_
database id
character name - any, sonic, sonic and tails...
score class (link score class table database id)

_score class table_
database id
score number
date number
player class (link player class table database id)

_player class table_
database id
player name
player data1
player data2
etc.

this is very easy with many-to-one links and lines only but can have better but harder structure with many-to-many links and circles.

then if new competition can add in competition class table and links are there already. if you want to have more characters can add in character class table and links are there already.

can also have table for numbers from other numbers to save server from thinking about too many numbers but this is obvious.

then this "filters" idea is not theoretical at all, only a SQL query away!

[Rolken]

I'm not entirely catching your drift, but I think that's pretty much how the database works now. The main problem is that at present there aren't allowances made for a time to be in multiple competitions with multiple rankings.

In response to Shadow... there are slim chances of 561 divisions being added. I think it's basically a choice between by lead character or team name. So the question is, what makes one better than the other?

I think you underestimate the amount to which a partner affects your strategy. NintenDan or the others could probably talk about it more skillfully than I, but the basic gist is, if a level is done better with a flying partner, you'll always use a flying partner; if better with a speed partner, you'll always use a speed partner. So, rather than everyone always using the same partner, better to enforce diversity of partners in a few divisions and then let the player have his pick of all the other characters in another division.

But then there's the fact that, for example, in a Sonic+Tails combo, Sonic may always be chosen as the lead character, leaving some characters essentially unused.

Can someone post what the different teams are? S+T, S+K, C+R, S+R, and OK?

[CosmicFalcon]

Can someone post what the different teams are? S+T, S+K, C+R, S+R, and OK?

Unbreakable Bond: Sonic and Tails
Fighting Buddies: Sonic and Knuckles
Lovely Couple: Sonic and Amy
Team Jubilee: Amy and Cream
OK: Everything else.

Of course, there are so few teams that you could in theory make up one or two for the purposes of Sonic Center only.

[DJ Koopa]

few? there's only 10 combos! but if you need somemore teams...

Unbreakable Bond: Sonic+Tails
Fighting Buddies: Sonic+Knuckles
Fast Food: Sonic+Cream
Lovely Couple: Sonic+Amy
Flying Fists: Tails+Knuckles
Young Flyers: Tails+Cream
OK: Tails+Amy
BitterSweet: Knuckles+Cream
Pink Fury: Amy+Knuckles
Team Jubilee: Cream+Amy

[Shadow Wedge]

Hmmm... Turbos' idea looks good... But...

Tails + Amy: Sonic's Sidekicks (???)

[Sonichero]

OK: Tails+Amy

I have got a good name "girl prower"

[yse]

I personally prefer NintenDan's idea of OK being a lucky break. Besides, 10 combos per act is far too many, even 5 is pushing it (sort of). It was fair enough for Advance 2...

Here's an idea I just thought up: Divide them into Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Cream, Amy, but your best time can be with them as leader or partner.

Example: Your top 5 times on any given level are these:

1. 0:40.35 - S&T
2. 0:40.38 - S&K
3. 0:52.10 - T&C
4. 1:01.99 - K&A
5. 1:03.53 - C&A

Your records would be something like this:

Sonic - 0:40.35
Tails - 0:40.35
Knuckles - 0:40.38
Cream - 0:52.10
Amy - 1:01.99

Thoughts?

[DJ Koopa]

I still say uni-division... like Knuckles Chaotix

[Taco]

well, as long as it's not by leader, then I'm happy

seriously, if the best job for a level was speed, then everyone could just choose sonic as their partner (Doesn't sonic do the same thing more or less for all of the character [speed them up with the R button?]?)

^That was confusing...with the ([]) and all!

[Shadow Wedge]

Ya, maybe just uni-division it??? It's getting kinda annoying, not being able to submit times...

[Zealous]

Maybe the best idea would be to ignore the team combo altogether.

The Time Attack mode wasn't made to hold records for specific teams, it's all just slapped onto one page regardless of the characters used. To divide by leader would be possible, because it tells you which characters used, but 'twould be a hassle BECAUSE once you made another record, some other record would be wiped out, and say you hadn't submit it to TSC yet?

I think there should be no character divisions--but maybe an option to show which characters used, for a reference to the other players.

[Zealous]

What do you all think?  :lol:

[SadisticMystic]

I think there should be no character divisions--

Agreed.

but maybe an option to show which characters used, for a reference to the other players.

It's called the Comment Box.

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

I agree with the idea of uni-division. Time Trials would just be to confusing any other way.

[Taco]

ya, I guess unidivision works

except all my records are worthless now :P

Oh well, last post for a month! YAY!

[General Throatstomper]

I know that this will sound weird, and I can't really explain it that well, but what if there were 5 submission boxes for each level, and you could post your top 5 times for that level or boss, and say person X had a good time for level X as a certain pairing, but not as good as the record achieved by a different pairing, it would count if it beat the Second best time of the other person as the next spot on the submission list. That way, different combinations still get weight in the levels/bosses, even if they aren't the best option, but you don't have to meticulously submit times for every single pairing.

[Shadow Wedge]

I suggest that we just put it to Unidivision so that other people can submit times...

Edit: If it works for Knuckles Chaotix, it will work for this.

Edit2: I agree with not using the formation type too. (see below)

[Chaos Angel 73]

I agree with unidivision. Read my sig (if it comes up on this post). It'll show you why.
Hee hee hee...

[General Throatstomper]

I have a better idea. We could do it based on formation (the formations are shown in the Top-left hand corner) so that the 3 types are covered, and given equal weight. That way, one combination isn't used as the only way to get a record. The 3 types are Power, Speed, and Fly.

[Sonichero]

Nope the best way is still uni-devision because the game has a uni-devision then so should the site

[DJ Koopa]

Won't work. Anyone paired up with Sonic is Speed
Anyone paired up with Knuckles besides Sonic is Power
Tails and Cream are Flying
and Amy has no trait.

[Chaos Angel 73]

So what? Chances are someone's gonna wind up setting a record with Amy as primary character. Most likely to get past those infernal breakable walls. Traits don't matter, either. It may be evident what traits benefit what zone when more records are set, but otherwise traits are ignorable as far as I'm concerned. I don't look to see which trait I'm using before I enter a zone:

OMGWTFLOLBBQ! I UZ3D T3H FLY1NG 1NST34D 0F T3H SP33D!!!11! ROTFLMFAO!

I could care less. No one cares what trait is used as long as it sets a decent record, correct? Therefore, unidivision should be used for time attack records.