[finalrush7_]

Ok, worst case scenario:
I was making a vid for my FR speedrun, expecting to get the usual 2:10.7 or somewhere near off, but then I realized that at the last checkpoint, I beat my personal best by 0.68 seconds! I was like, yeah, I can get a much faster record now! But then, something very strange happened: the last thingy you run down before being shot to the goal ring...I missed that platform. that alone wouldn't be really bad, since I would be restored to the last checkpoint and still have some advantage, but it seems like I'm falling, but not to death, but the way I'm falling, I'm not hitting any death planes (meaning: I don't die, just keep falling)

As I am writing this now, I'm falling for 30 minutes already. I am definitely super pissed off since I don't think I can do this run that fast again! I'm just praying now that Sonic dies at 99:59:99 or so.....

****!

[Selphos]

Ah, SM's had that happen some times, and so have I. He's going to keep falling, whether you like it or not. Sorry :(

[Brian]

If you taped it, show us, this is a sad thing but you can at least put this vid as a partial run, would be "great" to see this :)

[finalrush7_]

Well, I don't know how lucky I got, but after 99 minutes and 56 seconds of falling, Sonic died!!!!

And the vid will be up soon, gotta convert it, cut, adjust sound and upload.
Will take some hours, but I'll have it done today!

Did I mention.... 2:10 barrier is BROKEN!!
New record: 2:09:92!!!!!!!!!

[Brian]

Wooooooooooooot!!!!!!!!! xP .........(gone to a hospital)

[finalrush7_]

May I present you this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcofC51dvxc

[Aitamen]

Fuckin' awesome...

THIS is why competition is a good thing

[finalrush7_]

Thanks!

[X-5]

I told you 2:09 is possible. I just had no idea it could be done with two freaking checkpoints.. What's looking possible now? 2:08 or even 2:07? I told you once one of us got the "insanely perfect" 2:09 we'd see lower as possible. I just knew it! cause it always turns out that way.

Your SRS was pretty average though, you lost some time there. But what exactly did you do  just after the SRS? You were supposed to bounce ball the rail but you did not, it kind of looks like you did a bounce ball to the platform to the left, or either you jumped off the rail really fast, I am not sure cause of the video quality. Did it save a lot of time to get you to the check so fast(1:21?!)

[finalrush7_]

Yeah, you were right with the 2:09 and lower. I would say that now a 2:08.5 would be max.
Definite max for the first checkpoint is 45.5, which I've gotten quite a few times, but never below.

That's actually the new shortcut I was trying! The SRS was intended to be a blue aura jump, so I can get to the beginning of the platform as fast as possible with the homing attack. After that, a charged spindash with two bounces lets you get just enough height to be able to run on the platform to the left. From that point on, when being behind the first AC, charge a spindash, release it and turn to running formation to make it to the second platform, from there, jump and bounce on the rail, the rest should be clear.
I've never been able to pull it off that well, that's why it definitely saved me an addition half of a second..

[X-5]

ahh okay I see it now with your explanation. very cool looking and helpful time saver there. It will probably take me a little while to do it properly without hitting anything.

As payment I found a tiny little time saver for you.. it may not even make a difference, but on the very last rail you hit, if you jump and do he B+A move(bounce+homing attack) on the rail, you will go hyper fast and shoot to the springs in less than half a second. this works on any rail, I am not so sure if it is useful anywhere else, but it speeds up the ending for sure. Also before the rail I mentioned you wasted time with the bounce ball.. just do a jump and you land right on the platform as long as you jump soon enough..otherwise you go below the platform and die. you really need to revise the ending, you will probably get 2:08 and start seeing 2:07 :P Actually, I already see 2:07 if you don't use checkpoints, but we know that is going to get harder and harder as we find trickier tricks.

I guess I should play instead of sitting here making you do everything..but you are crazy! I broke the sub 2:12 barrier but you broke.. sub 2:11 and 2:10! I will be silently playing.. practicing..which should keep you on the edge, cause you never know what time I may submit!

[finalrush7_]

I knew about the B+A trick, but it's actually just as fast because I have just a huge upwards momentum.
Well, I didn't know that a single jump would give you enough height. I know I've tried it a few times, but didn't seem to do it, so I just thought it's impossible. I guess this'll be worth some try outs...
That alone probably won't be enough for a 2:07, but I have another little trick that DOES save time, but I lose time getting into the right position. Maybe we can work together to get the perfect path for it. Anyways, hard to explain, but I'll try to do it here (else, a vid is needed)

you know the little tunnel you go through at the very end of the stage to reach the springs that shoot you upwards to where the boxes are?
There, on the tunnel, to the left side, you gotta be standing on the part that is 45° angled, if you do a spindash without jumping towards the wall, there is a small hole in the invisible wall, so you will directly be sent to the red platform you have to run down.

This may save up to a second, but getting into the right position definitely loses me a lot.

Oh and good luck at FR!!

[X-5]

ha, funny.. I had just found that trick myself yesterday, and I had no luck in saving time either. I kept getting hit by the rocks and dieing, never quite landing on solid ground. Guess all we can do is keep trying.  I had a different way of doing our new trial trick, I was jumping from the corner of the block with the 2 rails on it, I think I would have made it if I had anticipated the camera change, I reacted very slow re-angling my self. I don't know if it will work better, but it would have to be physically faster than jumping up on top.

But at this rate we will someday get down to 2:05, or maybe 2:00.. seems crazy as I said weeks ago but things just keep coming up.. if you had told me 2:09 is possible when I had 2:15 i'd of laughed at you, but it is a reality now. things thought impossible.. can become possible! that is just so awesome! Remember old master Zealous? I hope he sees your time.. he thought my 2:15 was wild, he would think yours is just insane, he would probably be proud of how far you pushed "his" level :P


by the way 2:42 is really good on final chase for your first try.. feel free to play that level all you want, because my record really sucks. 2:27 or better would be easy, and not even be optimized still!

[finalrush7_]

lol, yeah I guess I'll center my playing around this trick for a while now since we know there's time to be saved..
Aside from that, there's nothing I see that can save any time, expect something called gravity control. Brian told me about this, it seems useful. Ill have to wait for a vid to know how it's done exactly, but he also said that with that technique, there might be a chance of skipping the 3 springs quickly.

2:05 isn't that far away, either. If we can find out how to use that shortcut at the end of the stage, along with that gravity control thingy and no checkpoints...who knows, who knows..
Yeah, two weeks ago I would have said 2:09 can't be done, but new little trick keep appearing.
Too bad I've never got a chance to meet Zealous. Where is he even, did he retire? From what I've heard he must have been awesome! Let's hope he returns some time..

Yeah, I was surprised I was so near the record on my first try. I had to abuse checkpoints though because these damn tubes keep screwing me over.. <_<

[X-5]

I got the trick to work a few times last night, jumping from the left side of the block with the 2 rails on it. I could not quite tell if it really saves time, but it seems like it should. I had one run where it seems like it saved a second..not so sure. maybe you will have better luck testing it. But at least I can confirm jumping from the block works, which is probably the best spot. knowing you tho you'll find a better spot.

this gravity trick sounds interesting, tho I have no idea what he did. Brian is going to have a list with hundreds of SA2 patents someday.. :P Maybe he'll find me a way to get 1:30 or 1:20 on CE!

Zealous I am pretty sure you can say he retired. He was here when I was for a little bit, that is when he got his 2:18 to finally obsolete his old 2:26 run, which was the record for a while. I never met him, but he did PM me when I was a n00b(3:12 on final rush) explaining some shortcuts, cause he said I had potential and he wanted me to try to beat his time. I never did so well with the shortcuts(2:40?) it was after I saw his 2:26 video is when I started doing well, beating him soon enough.

you should check out his 2:26 video, it is cool cause it is his old route(very outdated!) plus he recorded it without sound, and he put in his own sound effects for sonic, I think they are funny and awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMKT3vvIrI He uploaded it there, and apparently his last sign in was 10 hours ago, so he is around...just not here. you should send him your 2:09 video, and see what he says. I'd like to hear what he says!

[finalrush7_]

I only got a chance to try it for some minutes, but I can see that it will save time. The sudden camera change doesn't really help, but oh well. I'll be testing more tomorrow <_<

The Gravity trick is indeed interesting, I can't wait for his new Green Forest vid!

Hmm, too bad. I just PM'd him on his YT channel, told him he should come back to compete here again and showed him my vid to hopefully awaken his spirit again.
Also, I've seen that vid quite a few times, and it's amazing! Even more awesome when you take into account that this vid was made around two years ago, and that without it (and his guide), many would have never found these awesome shortcuts he showed there.

Let's see what he says, and whether he comes back.

[X-5]

If you jump properly from my spot, with a well-timed homing attack you will land on the solid slope just before the camera changes, then you can do a spindash and the camera will whip around so you can start holding down.

So he used a new trick to get the green forest record back? maybe I can beat it then... with what I do now .47 would have to be so perfect it would be an ultimate challenge. I wanna badly see it now, maybe it can be used in all the levels.

I get the feeling Zealous is not in the mood to compete these days, because he has known about my old 2:15 for a year and he never attempted to improve himself nor show up here, I think he is had enough and letting us take over. I am sure he will still be amazed at your time though, he still shows interest in watching FR runs, just not playing.
Yeah- as far as I know he is the real final rush expert for finding the overall best base strategy that can be further optimized through persistent playing.

I am unsure if I will beat you :( I cannot do your new trick at all, I cannot even manage to bounce high enough to the platform.. I said the same thing about the SRS at first, so probably I can do it in time. Seems much harder though..

[finalrush7_]

Yeah, you are right. I've tried jumping form this spot, and it really worked quite a few times. I guess it still needs checkpoint abuse though, because I can get it 1/4 times now.

Taking about Green Forest...I don't have the DC version, so do you know how much time I lose because I don't have access to that invisible platform?

Been a day, no response yet. Then again, he didn't log in for a day now.

tss tss, of course you will beat me! You're the great Paragod after all! You will have to practice the new shortcut though. You can use the nearby 1:06 checkpoint for praticing, probably with 99 lives or so..
Remember, it needs two bounces to reach the platform(height) and the previous spindash for distance.
And don't worry, it's actually much easier than the SRS, at least it was for me.

[X-5]

25% is probably about the same success rate I was getting once I figured it out.

I am going to say GC loses 8 seconds to DC. My 1:32 on GC was semi-flawless just like Brian's 1:24, and and I am sure 1:31 MAYBE 1:30 is possible with perfection, that would be 1:23 or 1:22 DC.  It would be around 10 seconds, but there are some parts that you can do faster on GC.

I am the Paragod.. but you are the crazy newcomer who loves final rush! out-doing you for good will be very hard. It sounds even harder with your explanation, knowing that I have to time the spindashes and bounces just right to barely make it.. practice it very soon, I will!

I am glad you finally took down my stupid Mission 5 record. I hate that mission so much, a few parts are trickier and getting a flawless run just does not happen for me. 2:15 sounds about right for a lenient max. Are you going to improve it soon(along with mission 3, 1:44 or 1:43 is possible there now!) or are you waiting for me to beat them both cause you know you can swipe both back quickly? :P

[finalrush7_]

After a few days, I'm sure we'll both be able to get it up to 50% or higher..

8 seconds huh? Well, I was never that good at green forest, so I was just wondering <_<

yeah, hehe.. it's funny, I developed that technique as a backup when the SRS wouldn't have shot me that far. turns out you save quite some time there. Oh, and we need a name for that too. this time, you choose!

I wasn't really familiar with the mission 5 hazards, so I just went in with around 14 lives and used a checkpoint or two when needed. M5 and M3, I will improve it whenever you want me to. I don't really have anything to do now anyways.. As you can see I've been submitting some score/ring and other time records to improve my overall stat.
Also, I came to the conclusion that I suck at all M2 records <_<

[X-5]

Hope so. It does not seem all that hard, to me it has been way easier than your new trick.

you want me to name it? okay, sure..lets see.. it involves 2 rapid bounces, and 1 spindash..(and 1 A button press but it doesn't really count as a jump) so... I guess I will call it...FR7's Rapid Bounce SpinDash! (RBS)

should we name our new trick at the end? If so you pick the name for that one.

I guess I will just play FR M2 and 5 sometime(maybe today) and then you will surely play them and beat me, and then we could at least pretend we are having heated competition back and forth even tho the times we submit suck(till we hit 2:15 anyway, that is when the record starts resembling something I can actually call a good run) 

As for missions 2's, well maybe you are just used to longer levels that allow you to be much more imperfect and still get a record plus allow you to use checkpoints. you cannot do any of that in mission 2's, so you need to adjust your play style and you will probably adapt. Since they are such short missions, they can be pushed to near perfection(within a few tenths) unlike FR with 2:08 or 2:07 as a future possibility. Your times for them are not that bad anyway, just look at my very first submission for mission 2's,(or any mission for that matter) yours are just as good or better.
For Final Rush M2, do you want me to make a quick video showing you my route? I got 40.04 with it(haven't submitted that just yet, I want sub 40 now) I think my route is way easier, and just as fast as yoshifan's.

and you know what is funny.. I saw your submission for city escape and I said to myself "he's getting better!" then I read the comment and it says "getting better" :P

[finalrush7_]

Practiced a bit today, got it up to 50% I think. that's from the tunnel.  I have no luck in getting it done from your spot, and haven't found a better one either.

RBS sounds perfect! Name for the last trick? hmm... How about Cross-Wall Spindash! CWS!

I guess then I'll wait for you to get both records back, and then try to snap them from you again..

You are right, I'm used to longer levels. good thing there's a lot of vids showing M2 runs so I can just copy that and usually get a 5 seconds lower time. Then again, I'm not really that trying (only for red now). I'm not submitting anything that is below red either. There's no ned to hurry anyways..
And it'd be really great of you if you could upload that vid. And while you're at it, maybe the Radical Highway m1 as well? It says file not found, and I'd love to see that run because it seems like such a good time!

and you know what is funny.. I saw your submission for city escape and I said to myself "he's getting better!" then I read the comment and it says "getting better" :P

XD

[Brian]

Hi guys, I've been off for a while 'cause my job is taking most of my time now, but I'm visiting the forum whenever I can, only to respond a question: In my green forest mission3 record, I did the same strategy as in my vid, but at the end instead of spindashing and jumping, later doing a homing attack and go to the chao's plataform, I got the light dash right before the checkpoint and did a super bounce, then homing attack in the bettle and another to the chao, this is the only thing I did diferently, I'll try to beat this later but before that I'll make the vid explaining how "gravity control" can be used in real speedruns ok? I'm getting really excited with the tons of records that have been beated and re-beated in the past few days, SA2B is finally back to hot action!!! See ya! o/

[X-5]

Hey Brian! I'll try that out.. if I fail it is cool, you deserve all the green forest records plus more with all of your crazy contributions to the game, with probably tons more to come. I anticipate the new trick as well cause I have no idea what you may be doing. Yup, us 3 plus yoshifan have been playing a fair bit(yoshifan beat me, and discovered a great new strategy for metal harbor!) Just wait til Jawzun plays again, it'll be great. SA2B will definitely have the most and best action out of all the games on the site for the time being, since other games are pretty much dead with random people putting some random stats. About time SA2 was active I must say, even better that there are new players that are beating me at sonic levels! that wasn't so in 2007, everybody was afraid to even try. :P

[X-5]

Practiced a bit today, got it up to 50% I think. that's from the tunnel.  I have no luck in getting it done from your spot, and haven't found a better one either.

RBS sounds perfect! Name for the last trick? hmm... How about Cross-Wall Spindash! CWS!

I guess then I'll wait for you to get both records back, and then try to snap them from you again..

I am going to make and upload the FR M2 video soon in an hour or two from now, and if you really are not having any luck from my spot I will also make a quick video of that, since it is very easy to do. It's odd.. if you are really jumping from the top of the tunnel it seems like you would LOSE time compared to the regular way..since jumping on top takes quite a while compared to the block, and I am lucky if I even save a second. (Not so sure, yet)

Glad you like my name, I like yours too!


Red stats are a good goal to start with for a great player like you, but I am sure if you ever show real interest in M2's you will start getting near records pretty fast, after you adjust. Radical Highway.. It must have just recently died, it worked a month or two ago. I swear I had a copy on my PC, but I guess not. I will check the other PC later, it might have it. If not I can at least give you my M5 run, since it is dead too and I have been needing to re-upload it.

[X-5]

Done:

FR Block jump: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwz9PU8bols

FR M2 Route: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjieCcvmOrA

On the block trick I did not succeed, but I did properly do it.. just bad luck or something. Just copy it and it should work fairly often eventually. I was going to do it til I got it right but somebody else wanted the tv, so I took what I had and went to make all the videos. surely you can figure it out anyway, once you land you simply let go of the control stick and just do a straight spindash.

I also uploaded radical highway M5, and metal harbor M2 if by chance you wanna see that one. I cannot find M1 of radical highway :(

I am now going to play for your M5 record!

[X-5]

Check out the M5 time!

It sucks, but I am really excited that I found a CWS spot for M5(I assume you did not, otherwise I KNOW you'd have 2:14 or 2:13) Since this is mission 5, I  CWS saves tons of time, 4 to 5 seconds since you do not have to deal with the wannabe chaos to hit the switch.

I will let you figure it out yourself(It is really easy to find) and I have pulled it off exactly twice, and I have attempted it twice, meaning so far my consistency is 100%! Which is great..yeah, this is awesome :P I did not use the tunnel to jump by the way, I jumped before the tunnel (Spindash jump + homing attack)

I got to the check at 1:29(best is 1:28) and I didn't have to restart anywhere. I am sure you are capable of 1:25-1:26 checks, so put that CWS to good use! I could easily do 2:14 myself tonight, but I am very tired, and very tired of playing :P

I also realized a few things about M5.

1. I might have a chance at competing with you since one of the game developers was generous and took out the platform just for me, making your super-tough RBS trick not work.

2. The CWS for M5 is actually faster than M1 because it is much faster to get in the spot and jump, probably a 1.5s lead over M1.

[finalrush7_]

Thanks for the vids, they're definitely helping me!

Nice M5 time, it'll take me a while to get that back...
The best I've hit the last checkpoint was 1:29.5 and with restarting there, my best time came out to be 2:18.5.... I guess I'm losing quite some time at the end. I need to find a good route there.
I need to improve overall on M5 anyway.

So  was playing M1 today for fun, and noticed that I'm just 0.3 seconds off my record on the last checkpoint, so instead of going to the goal ring, I decided to go and get the chao (well, the 1 life capsule, at least). And tadaa, 1:44:14.
I'm not sure whether to submit it or not since it's not saved as a M3 time... What do you think, should I submit it?

Anyway, I say go for the 2:14 on M5 if it's easy for you.

[X-5]

Hope so, I was not sure if they'd be of any use or not. you need anymore for anything just tell me!

Did you use CWS on M5?  it makes the ending very easy and you can beat me with a 1:29 check, I know much lower is possible like 1:26. 2:12 is probably maxed.. quite close to M1. I need to improve overall too, I am going to do that today. I was tired last night and once I discovered the exciting 5-sec saving CWS I just wanted a completion. You know that long rail you ride near the beginning, on M1 you touch it at about 17 seconds, and you enter the building thing at a mid 18 seconds? what time do you enter the building on M5? I get there at 20.5, I am wondering if you have a better route or not.

Heh.. well.. in Pyramid Cave, I was playing on M3 and I had such a great run I went for the goal ring. The goal ring freezes your time for a few secs so as far as I can tell it was just like playing M1, so I submitted it as my M1 time(Same time I have today)  I am not sure about M3 on M1... since you have to touch the extra life box and pause right after, obviously proper timing is impossible.. plus a homing attack locks onto an extra life box and not a chao, so if you had quickly homing attacked it the time would be less than what you'd of gotten on M3 and be illegit. I would probably just do it again. :(

[finalrush7_]

Mhhm, I guess I will.
Another question, in white jungle, quite in the middle of the level you're holding onto a rope which circles around the tree once, and then you get sent to a platform with a spring at the beginning. I've seen speedruns where a player just gets shot a little further to avoid touching the spring (major time loss, since it just shoots you upwards). How do they avoid it? I can't seem to..

Yes, I used CWS on my 1:28 run (a bit better, but not submitting anything below 1:27).  It seems that I'm losing a lot of time in the middle part of the level, because I enter the building 1.2 seconds slower than in M1, meaning at around 20.0.
I just avoid the AC at around 0:14 by a short hop and the B+A to be running instead of grinding.
And don't forget to tape that 1:24 run, I'm sure it'll be awesome! (good luck btw)

Hmm, you're right, I'll just go properly for it again in M3. I'm pretty inconsistent on that last rail part though..