Sonic Central > Rules Revisions
Scores and the Secret Rings?
Magnezone:
Missions affected by this (incomplete obviously):
Lost Prologue 20: Dead (though the timer makes it so you can't get infinite score)
Lost Prologue 21: Dead (though the timer makes it so you can't get infinite score)
Evil Foundry 1: Dead
Evil Foundry 2: Dead (dual rails in a later stretch)
Evil Foundry 5: Dead (rails all over the place, time limit though)
Evil Foundry 6: Dead (rail staring you in the face at the beginning)
Evil Foundry 8: Dead (golem at the end)
Evil Foundry 9: Dead (rail almost staring you in the face at the beginning)
Evil Foundry 11: Dead (rail staring you in the face at the beginning)
Evil Foundry 12: Still Alive
Levitated Ruin 1: Dead
Levitated Ruin 3: Dead (invisible rail at beginning)
Levitated Ruin 4: Dead (Rail at beginning)
Levitated Ruin 5: Still Alive
Levitated Ruin 7: Still Alive
Levitated Ruin 8: Still Alive
Levitated Ruin 9: Needs to be axed anyway since you can do infinite loops
Levitated Ruin 10: Still Alive
Levitated Ruin 11: Still Alive
Night Palace 1: Dead
Night Palace 2: Still Alive
Night Palace 3: Still Alive
Night Palace 4: Still Alive
Night Palace 6: Dead (Two rails after the hourglass can be easily re-boarded)
Night Palace 7: Dead (ditto)
Night Palace 8: Dead (Rail at the beginning can be re-boarded even if the arrows destroy some solid ground)
Night Palace 9: Dead (Two rails after the third spirit world entrance)
Night Palace 10: Still Alive
Night Palace 11: Dead (The rail leading into the upside-down exit to the spirit world is regrindable)
Night Palace 12: Dead (it's possible to regrind the invisible rail)
Ring Rush:
SL: I'm fairly sure, due to the Night Palace glitch, that NP2 is also dead, as you can simply break out of bounds and go to the spirit world.
So wait, did we have official confirmation that we are just removing the rail levels?
Stefan:
RR, I can't see why it's a bad idea to remove just the rail levels.
If you find a technique that provides for infinite score in a certain type of level, you don't just go about deleting unaffected levels. You don't necessarily nuke all scores cause a few have a certain technique.
Your wording made the entire situation sound DRASTIC, as if every level were easily broken and easy to hax. The entire level of Dinosaur Jungle is free from any consequences of infinite rail points.
Below is a comprehensive list of which levels are affected by the technique and which aren't:
Scores in Need of Scrapping Because of Rail Points
Sand Oasis 1
Sand Oasis 4
Sand Oasis 5
Sand Oasis 6
Sand Oasis 8
Evil Foundry 1
Evil Foundry 2
Evil Foundry 6
Evil Foundry 8
Evil Foundry 9
Evil Foundry 11
Levitated Ruin 1
Levitated Ruin 4
Pirate Storm 1
Pirate Storm 3
Skeleton Dome 1
Skeleton Dome 5 *
Skeleton Dome 6 *
Skeleton Dome 9 *
Skeleton Dome 10 *
Skeleton Dome 11 *
Night Palace 1
Night Palace 6
Night Palace 7
Night Palace 8
Night Palace 9
Night Palace 12
*Rails in Skeleton Dome, though regrindable, are extremely difficult to backtrack to. Often, one must blindly pass backwards through fast moving axes or skeleton enemies. Other times, spike balls are the hazard. Though infinite score is possible, it is extremely difficult. If someone can consistently grind the single rail in sd11, I think they deserve a pricey reward.
Scores in Need of Scrapping for Other Reasons
Levitated Ruin 9 - You can take infinite laps around the level.
Pirate Storm 9 - Infinite laps *
Pirate Storm 10 - Infinite laps *
Pirate Storm 11 - infinite rings
Pirate Storm 12- Infinite laps *
*Technique is difficult, but exists.
Scores in Limbo
Lost Prologue 20
Lost Prologue 21
Sand Oasis 7
Evil Foundry 5
Skeleton Dome 7
Night Palace 11
All of these scores have regrindable rails, but have time limits. The time limits prevent infinite scores and put less emphasis on rail grinding. For example, SD7's time limit is 45 seconds, and it takes a decent chunk of time and effort to regrind a rail. It is more efficient to go for extra rings (this level is not maxed) than to spend all your time on a 10 point regrind. these levels should probably be on a case by case basis.
Levitated Ruin 3
Skeleton Dome 3
These levels, too, have time limits. The thing that separates them from the above levels is that they may not have regrindable rails. The rails are either very difficult to regrind or aren't regrindable at all. These levels are otherwise the same as the above.
Scores Which Are Entirely Unaffected
Sand Oasis 2
Sand Oasis 3
Dinosaur Jungle 1
Dinosaur Jungle 2
Dinosaur Jungle 3
Dinosaur Jungle 4
Dinosaur Jungle 6
Dinosaur Jungle 7
Dinosaur Jungle 8
Dinosaur Jungle 9
Dinosaur Jungle 10
Dinosaur Jungle 12
Evil Foundry 12
Levitated Ruin 5
Levitated Ruin 7
Levitated Ruin 8
Levitated Ruin 10
Levitated Ruin 11
Pirate Storm 2
Pirate Storm 4
Pirate Storm 6
Pirate Storm 7
Pirate Storm 8
Skeleton Dome 2
Skeleton Dome 4
Skeleton Dome 8
Skeleton Dome 12
Night Palace 2
Night Palace 3
Night Palace 4
Night Palace 10
Conclusion and Junk
Basically, the extent of this rail nonsense is far less than RR estimated. He constantly called to delete all the SSR scores, when in reality the game was not as touched by the technique as he assumed.
Of the 71 scores currently tracked by tsc, 5 were already capable of infinite score before the rail stuff was found. Of the remaining 66 scores, 31 are not affected in any way (47%). The number that are certainly capable of infinite score is 27, or 41%. In the event that the skeleton dome scores are deemed too unrealistic to become infinite, the number of guaranteed infinites is 22, or 33%
Best case scenario, with limbo scores tracked and the skeleton dome scores tracked, 44 levels will still be tracked at tsc, about 67%. Worst case scenario, 47% will remain.
In other words, we need opinions. What should we do about the limbo scores (time limit)? What should we do about the skeleton dome scores that are difficult to backtrack on (probably delete)?
And, based on our decision, is that fact that we have only 31 levels left justification to delete them all? or is that potential 31-44 levels enough competition value to rationalize keeping them? Should we delete all the levels because there will be only 31-44 left? Or should we only delete those clearly affected and keep competition in those which have competition value?
My opinion is that some skeleton dome scores should get second looks, the limbo scores should be taken on a point for point basis, and we should keep all salvageable levels we can.
your opinions?
EDIT: I've changed my mind, the SD scores are pretty much goners.
EngiNerd:
I still say remove them. Yeah, I know jumping won't possibly be what's discovered, but I still think there's bound to be one or two things that grant scores that nobody has found yet. We only have very little left to document scores for, all of Dinosaur Jungle and no more than five for any other world. As much as I hate bringing up that hot potato again, this reminds me of the recent Sonic R issue; the score charts are being broken (albeit, at an inconsistent rate), and soon enough some genius will deliver the final blow. This just seems to be getting more and more impractical.
And, I know it really doesn't matter, and I'm only saying it as a joke, but isn't Stefan the current CHAMPION of SSR? Implying that he's possibly scared of his lead dropping... <_<
Stefan:
I don't see why that is a given assumption.
The idea that "we've found all these things, therefore there must be more" is not based in very much. We had an idea rail bonuses gave score a -long- time ago. We hadn't proven it, though. Not until recently was it problematic. You shouldn't pre-emptively delete scores because there "might" be something found in the future, especially when there is no evidence for it.
You forget that there are fewer missions clearly affected than clearly unaffected by the glitch. It's not that we have little left to work with!
Also if my lead drops in ssr i'll just get it back by finishing off ring chains and bosses.
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