[Magnezone]

You know, I can only hit that first ? box on Egg Rocket and get a 40 almost every time and hit the first ? box on Neo Green Hill Zone 2 and get a 5 almost every time before I start thinking that the ? boxes in this game can be manipulated.

So I've done a few tests on the Neo Green Hill Zone Act 2's first ring box, trying to get a 40 on it. I can confirm the following:

Things that don't seem to do anything to change the ? box amount (as in I get a 5 almost every time after 10 tests) -
-Changing score - Hitting the monkey will give 100 points to the score, then simply holding right without doing anything else gives me a 5.
-Changing ring amount - Grabbing a different amount of rings, whether it be 1, 6, 7, 9, or 12 results, results in a 5.
-Hitting enemies - I don't hit any enemies getting the 40 on ER, and I already tested it for score, and it made no changes. I still get a 5.
-Getting hit - This didn't do anything either. It's not an ideal ring attacking strategy anyway, you know?
-Current time on the timer - It can be 0:09, 0:20, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00 and I'll still get the 5.

NOTE: For all of my tests, I just completed the idea and returned to the ring box as simple as possible, as in just holding right and running to the box.

What seems to make a difference seems to have something to do with moving quickly. Hitting the box with a fully charged spindash seems to throw 10 rings my way almost every time, and starting from the right of the water spout and making my way back to the ? box gave be a 40! I can't get it to give it to me again though.

Infact, in writing that, I gained another idea and tested it out. I spindashed into the wall while atop the spring 320948920340 times, occasionally messing up and jumping, jumped at the ? box and hit it, and got a 40 out of it. I think it may actually have something to do with performing a sustained amount of actions. I tried it again many more times, and my results were much more varied, though 40's were popping up a lot more than 5's or any other amount.

However, that test was very random, so I have decided to test the spindash results further. Charging it once and then spinning off into the box always gives a 5, but spamming the charge button gave more varied results. Right now, I am going to test whether or not the number of charges of the spindash forms any kind of graph when you line up all of the data. I'll show my results when I am done with 50.

[Magnezone]

That test kind of went like a FAILURE. I used two versions of Sonic Advance - a hard copy, and an emulated one w/ a savestate.

The emulated savestate, which I had been doing most of my testing on, gave me one of the following - 1, 5, 10. 50 tests.

The other one acted more like a ? box. As in, actually random. Screw that. X(

So, with that testing completed, basically all of my ? box testing sucks now and this thread is pretty useless. I am still getting 40's on that first ring box in ER every time though, so now, I'm just confused, and still have that inclination to believe that the ? boxes can be manipulated somehow. If any of you people want to waste time to confirm/figure this out further, please do so, as manipulation of the ? boxes would obviously help. :[

[Zeupar]

When you start score attacking stages like Neo Green Hill 2 or Egg Rocket Zoneyou realize that Sonic Advance ? boxes aren't so random... Lately I have played Sonic Advance a lot of time and I have drawn a few conclusions (not solid) about the amount of rings ? boxes give you:

- Some boxes depend on the timer (but in different ways). For example, the first ? box in Egg Rocket Zone will ever gave you 40 rings if you reach the spring under it sub 10 seconds and just after the takeoff you jump on it and hit the box. But I have reached it sometimes over 10 seconds and it gave me 40 as well... Another example would be the first ? box in Secret Base Zone Act 2: it generally gives you more rings if you hit it after 2:00. Generally the ? boxes give you more rings if you hit them when the timer is high (but there are exceptions like the previous example). My best advice would be the following: try getting every single ring in a stage before hitting the ? boxes (if it's possible). It's a risky strategy, but it's the best.

- Some ? boxes never give you 40 rings. For example, the second ? box in Egg Rocket Zone. It almost always gives you 10 or 20 rings (rarely 5, and never 1 or 40). There are more examples of this kind of ? boxes.

- Some ? boxes seem random. I think the number of rings these boxes give you could depend on the timer. For example:

X:XX:00 - X:XX:09 --> 1 rings
X:XX:10 - X:XX:29 --> 5 rings
X:XX:30 - X:XX:49 --> 10 rings
X:XX:50 - X:XX:69 --> 20 rings
X:XX:70 - X:XX:89 --> 30 rings
X:XX:90 - X:XX:99 --> 40 rings

Something likeness this would explain why getting 40 rings out of certain ? boxes is so difficult... Anyway we couldn't take advantage of this kind of boxes.

By the way, which mode have you used to do those tests? I say this because in Time Attack Mode the ? boxes are way more "generous" than in Game Start Mode. This is very easy to check: play ten times Neo Green Hill Zone Act 2 in both modes and plus the results (of the first ? box) for each mode. Because of that I was going to write a topic in rules revisions. This should be clarified in the rules ("Time Attack Mode shouldn't be used when competing for rings or scores").

I guess you have started this topic because you are trying "First" challenge for Sonic Advance, aren't you?

[Magnezone]

That second ? box usually gives me 5/10, sometimes 20, never 1 or 40 though. I'll bet it can get 40 if you do something though X(

Btw 120K is possible

[Taco]

This is something that I've wanted to figure out myself because...well...it's almost necessary for anyone who is serious about RAing the advance games (though the trick to manipulation may differ in other games)

Many many times have I gotten the same amount of rings by hitting the capsule under the exact same circumstances over and over again. which variables determine the outcome is uncertain to me at the moment however.

I think the two biggest factors are current ring count and time. I doubt it's something to do with the speed or way you actually break open the capsule, though Taco has actually been known to be wrong from time to time, would you believe that?

Everything computer generated that is "random" can't just be random. A value has to be determined in some way for the computer to choose that number. It would seem logical that the programmers made a simple formula based on the two simplest variables, ring and time, to determine a "random" ring count for the [?] capsules.

Hopefully I can look into this myself soon...just need that damn battery!

[Ring Rush]

Don't underestimate how they are decided. Recently we figured out that to get a 10 ring panel in S1(GG) you need to die exactly twice during your run. And to get the 10,000 flag bonus you have to roll and knock the flag up to a certain height; going over won't give you anything and going under will give you lower bonuses.

There is a good chance it isn't as obvious as just ring or time.

[Zeupar]

That second ? box usually gives me 5/10, sometimes 20, never 1 or 40 though. I'll bet it can get 40 if you do something though X(

You were right. Months ago I discovered a tactic to get 40 rings (using it you can get 1 ring as well if you aren't lucky), but forgot to post it here. >_<

Btw 120K is possible

You were right as well. X)