[yoshifan]

Recently there's been a bit of interest in SA2(B) Mission 4 ring attacks, so I thought I might bring this up again.  Should Mission 4 rings or scores be added to TSC's charts?

With the exception of Routes 101 and 280, Mission 1 and Mission 4 of every stage have just two differences: only Mission 1 has checkpoints, and Mission 4 adds a time limit (or a stricter time limit for Green Forest, Security Hall, and White Jungle).


Implications on Mission 4 ring attacks:

- There's no checkpoint manipulation.  In Sonic/Shadow and Tails/Eggman levels, M1 and M5 ring runs often involve creative and risky backtracking tricks to maximize checkpoint bonuses.  M4 has no such thing - this may be good if you think backtracks are tedious and/or annoying, or bad if you think ring runs become bland without the backtracking tricks.

- Time limits may or may not present a good challenge.  All but 2 of the M4 ring attacks are already known to be 'maxable', but some levels are much more difficult to max than others.  Levels like Prison Lane, Mission Street, and Iron Gate don't add too much difficulty to the Mission 1 RA, but levels like Wild Canyon, Pyramid Cave, and Radical Highway may require a lot of practice and planning to max in M4.

- M4 ring attacks may feel like a direct extension of M1 ring attacks which don't involve checkpoint manipulation.  In particular, all Knuckles/Rouge M1 ring attacks have no checkpoints, so those M4 ring attacks simply add a time limit.  Is this a bad thing or not?


Implications on Mission 4 score attacks:

- No checkpoints to get points or shields from.  This will slightly lower M4 scores compared to M1 scores, but this probably won't affect strategies much.

- Speed is already an important element in M1 scores, but time limits still may make a difference.  In many Sonic/Shadow and Tails/Eggman levels, a few time consuming point sources may have to be skipped in favor of time.  In other levels, though, the top M1 score runs may already meet the M4 time limits.  In particular, Knuckles/Rouge score attacks will likely be exactly the same in M1 and M4.


Edit: I'm not considering Mission 4 stats for Routes 101 or 280 in this topic, as those are different from M4's of other stages and would thus be argued for or against differently.

[Waxwings]

Scores I think are a bit out there. In levels like WC4, EQ4, not to mention SO4, the score is virtually the same because they take much less time than the imposed limit.

The only thing it will influence is CW4 and other levels where you're supposed to get no time bonus. It's not far reaching enough. Rings, though, are more challenging and fit the bill better.  EQ4 and WC4 take practice.

[JBertolli]

I'd definitely like to see Mission 4 rings go up. I don't really score attack this game, though, so I really can't say a lot about that.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Well it'd certainly give me reason to boot up the game again for me, however, I personally don't think Scores are the best idea. Wings took my line: I was going to say, also, that Rings "fit the bill" more for what you're proposing.

[Auriman1]

I vote No to Score Attacks, and Yes to Ring Attacks for Mission 4, mainly for reasons that have already been stated.

[magnum12]

M4 Rings: Aye
M4 Scores: Nay

[Groudon]

Same as above 2.

[Bilan]

What they said, M1 scores almost always come in under the 2:45 time limit, with the exception of perhaps WB1? I don't think just that justifies scores~

Rings on the other hand I am total pro (Y)

[Pokemonmaster888]

Well, I definitely think Mission 4 rings for Sonic Adventure 2 (Battle) should be added. As said before, the time limit will be a factor, which isn't present in Missions 1 and 5. As also said before, there are no checkpoints either, which means the ring scores will almost always be different from Missions 1 and 5.

[yse]

Okay I think the consensus is pretty clear here.

To go along with this I would also suggest adding Sonic extra missions to the ring chart for Sonic Heroes, but a bigger question is whether the relevant Chaotix charts are also worthy of entry.

Opinions here, and also a decent name for the Sonic extra chart that isn't Sonic*.

[Pokemonmaster888]

I also agree. Team Sonic's Extra Missions should go up for rings as well. The reasons are the time limit, but that is mainly it since Sonic Heroes doesn't have rings for the checkpoints. I can't think of a decent name besides that though.

[JBertolli]

I third Sonic Extra rings being added. What is wrong with the name 'Sonic Extra'?

[yse]

Added. If anything breaks it's probably my fault, so find me, but I'm sure Rolken will be able to answer questions too.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Okay I think the consensus is pretty clear here.

To go along with this I would also suggest adding Sonic extra missions to the ring chart for Sonic Heroes, but a bigger question is whether the relevant Chaotix charts are also worthy of entry.

Opinions here, and also a decent name for the Sonic extra chart that isn't Sonic*.

Why do we even need a debate? You know we decided this already but someone's just choosing to ignore our suggestions.

And with that, I'm banned...

Besides, now it's too late for me since I've given up on Heroes and as such I don't have the game anymore. It belongs to one of my family members now. But that doesn't mean that just cause ks8 doesn't compete that nobody else can. Add them already. And while you're at it, to avoid prolonged laziness and to avoid questioning 6 months later whether OTHER suggestions will EVER be added, just add them all already. <_< I still have all my stats down on paper anyway - not just for this but for EVERYTHING. I'm mostly concerned with Riders divisions and Shuffle (that's another story) but I'm digressing.

[yse]

You're not exactly in a position to be demanding things of me.

I'll have you know that some of us actually have lives outside the site :O (admittedly, I'm not one of them). But to tell me to add your suggestions just because they're yours is out of order. Quartz tells me the Riders divisions have little value, and I don't think anyone but you ever really wanted Shuffle up.

Per this specific discussion, Chaotix rings for time limited missions has actually never been brought to the table before, so accusing me of ignoring this issue is just trolling.

In conclusion anything I have not added yet still needs a consensus to be reached.

[KnucklesSonic8]

I'm not even going to touch that subject... and for the record, who said anything about demanding? You're blowing this out of porportion.

Forget I ever brought Riders and Shuffle into the picture (I wasn't the only one who wanted them otherwise, Rolken wouldn't have even given them a second look; re: Riders, at the VERY LEAST, Missions should go in - competition potential is the greatest in that area and to many, it's probably the only thing that was suggested that does indeed have prolonged worth in adding). All suggested Heroes divisions should be added if this is going up - specifically, I'm talking about Special Stage scores. I'm really surprised it's still not up yet.

And I was referring to Rolken as to who's "ignoring" it, not you. Talk about jumping to conclusions...

And yes, you're right, we haven't suggested Chaotix Extra rings before. I was thinking about Chaotix Extra scores (which also have yet to be added as well, come to think of it).

Maybe this topic should be renamed as more than SA2B divisions are being discussed here...

But anyway, to "summarize": my mistake on the "consensus" thing as I mistook rings for scores (which WAS previously discussed, but rings wasn't brought to the table, as was said); missions from Riders are worth adding - forget the battle times I suggested although survival race has potential still; the next person that tells me something about Shuffle or my Competition Suggestions topic will cause me to go ballistic (more so than usual anyway XD).