[Crowbar]

I was more interested in the belated confirmation that Dedede will have his floating ability.

Seriously, though, stage-builder is fucking awesome.

As was Dedede's confirmation.

[General Throatstomper]

I officially eat my words on DeDeDe and Krystal. All mock in fair time.

I love this level editor idea, but I know it's going to fall under "mapmaker syndrome"-that is, the maps may be different but they all feel more or less the same.

Anyways I figured I would change things up, and post a theoretical 40-character roster for Brawl, excluding the 22 officially announced characters (Zss and Samus I count as the same character). Which leaves you 18 characters. It will be interesting to compare our lists with the final roster.

CHARACTERS?
1) Luigi-Accidentally confirmed by a Nintendo rep during a press conference. But even if he wasn't, there's no way Luigi doesn't make this game because he's a huge character in Nintendo's flagship franchise.

2) Krystal-Krystal's voice actor said that in Brawl, she voices Knuckle Joe, Zero-Suit, and Krystal. This could mean she's an assist trophy, but I find this prospect dubious as Krystal is one of the most requested characters for Brawl.

3)Ganondorf-Ganondorf is huge. Man. Basically he's the main nemesis of one of Nintendo's most acclaimed series. I don't see Ganondorf getting left out of Brawl.

4)Captain Falcon-Captain Falcon was in both of the previous Smash games, so I see him getting included on his past alone. With Goroh confirmed as an assist trophy, you know Sakurai hasn't forgotten about F-Zero.

5)Jigglypuff-Jiggly is another character with smash history, and she's become iconic for (among other things) being everyone's first unlockable. I just don't see Jiggs getting left out.

6)Ridley-Ridley is such a badass. He's basically a giant, electric, firebreathing, flying dragon. He's also a major villain in Metroid, a popular series of games that has never had due representation in Smash. I think personally he's a shoo-in.

7)Megaman-Megaman was one of the most requested third-party characters for Brawl, and he's part of one of Nintendo's longtime franchises. Given his Nintendo roots, I consider his inclusion highly likely.

8)Captain Olimar-Stefan actually came up with this idea, and thinking it through it makes sense. If you look at original Nintendo ip's on Gamecube aside from "the usuals" like Mario and Zelda, you pretty much draw a blank. Pikmin is one of the first new series from Nintendo in ages, and Captain Olimar would be a unique character to play.

9)Animal Crossing Player-Animal Crossing was pretty popular, so I'm willing to bet it sees some representation. Nook, KK Slider, and Resetti are obviously not choices, though they are the first you'd think of. They pretty much defined the AC sense of humor. This leaves you with...well, no real alternatives. Aside from an odd few like the Mable Sisters and Brewster, who don't really stand out much, the animals change. So I'm thinking the Animal Crossing Avatar is the only notable left.

10)Mii-Yes, a Mii. Let's be honest: we all want to see our creations smack each other down in battle, and Sakurai seems to be in touch with his audience. Nobody has ever really done anything with Miis...but you know if Sakurai allows Miis to fight, people will be churning out characters like crazy. Besides which, it's an offbeat character. Final smash: a Mii stampede. I love it.

11)Celshaded Link-Sakurai is all over style, and probably gives credit to the Wind Waker games. Wind Waker Link is pretty different from the TP model, and in more ways than Melee's YL/Link pair. Deku Leaf for recovery anyone?

12)Lucario-Lucario was one of the most requested pokemon characters, and he's one of Nintendo's most marketed pokemon. He is fairly interesting: a steel plated ninja. If he isn't playable, I'm sure he at least shows up in a pokeball.

13)Paper Mario-Once more an awesome character from games that were artistic dynamite. With badges, rolling, the paper airplane, etc, he has a huge repository of moves to draw from. Paper Mario games are some of my favorite, not that this has much bearing on what Sakurai thinks or does. However, he is universally regarded as great. I'm unsure on how many votes he received.

14)Pacman-Well ok, I know Sakurai said only 1 or 2 more third party characters, but he's buddy-buddy with Pacman's designer. When you think of old-school arcades, you think of Space Invaders, Frogger, and Pacman. Pacman means something, he's a symbol for nostalgia. Megaman was heavily requested, so I think Sakurai would include him for fan service, and maybe add Pacman for himself. Honestly.

15)Isaac-Isaac from Golden Sun is also noteworthy, and people voted for him en masse. Golden Sun is one of the most acclaimed games for the gba, and Isaac as the title character stands a fair chance of getting into Brawl. Camelot is a second party designer, so he's not bound by the rules of third party character inclusion.

16)Felix-Another dude from Golden Sun, star of the second game. Look a few inches up, you'll see why Felix has a good shot.

17)King K. Rool-King K. Rool was another character people asked for, so I guess he might get in. An alligator with a crown is a pretty cool premise for a character, though he would feel pretty bland as a combatant.

18)Falco-I get the feeling there will be another Starfox representative, and aside from Fox and Krystal, there aren't many other major characters. Star Wolf comes to mind, but as Fox has an alternate costume that makes him look like Wolf, I don't see this happening. Falco for being in last game I guess.

Of course this list is bloated, as I doubt there will be 40 characters. I also left out a few characters I'd like to see in such as Viewtiful Joe and Banjo Kazooie because they're not getting in. Ever. Still, I'd say it's a solid list and most of these characters wind up playable in Brawl.

Edit: looking through the list of characters voted on, I'm remembering a few that are probably getting in. Namely Geno and Sigurd. And others. Who I just forgot.

[Crowbar]

Nooo, not Krystal. D: I haet Krystal. SFA is a bad memory.

I never considered him seriously before, but now, thinking about it, I would really like to see Megaman in (as long as it's classic, not that I dislike X or Battle Network, but all these newer ones make my head spin).

I'm personally not sure how much I'd like Paper Mario or WW Link...but those are so up-in-the-air I'm not gonna discuss them. :P

[P.P.A.]

WW Link > TP Link.

[KnucklesSonic8]

The stage builder announcement locked me in: I'm definitely getting it.

I (as hard as it is to believe) wasnt stoked over it, but recent develop'ts plus the fact that I'll be getting it for a mere $30 has drawn me in beyond belief.

Only thing I fear is SEGA may be disheartened by Riders ZG's sales #'s...

Don't get any ideas, I'm buying Riders 2 first for sure but the sales wont be as high as they couldve been...

[Stefan]

I'll do the same as Genus, but, well, my predictions will be more logical/cool. yeah.

my 18 characters are as follow:

Confirmed/Given

1. Luigi - Nearest main star of nintendo series, slip up by nintendo rep. Plus, if Pit is in, Luigi is. It's just a given.

2. Ganondorf- There's no way kirby would have 3 reps when zelda would not.. Plus, again, Ganon's been accidentally slipped. But the main villain of the second biggest nintendo franchise is clearly in.

3. Krystal - Sakurai wants more females in. Sakurai wants original (staff wielding) chars in. Star fox is a decently big franchise. Plus, accidental slip up, again.

4.Captain Falcon - Fzero is another classic nintendo franchise. CF has been with Smash since the original twelve. He's just waiting on a confirmation.

5. Jigglypuff - Pokemon is again a big franchise. Original twelve, original characters. Jiggs is back.

EDIT: Oh, accidentally confirmed as well.

Very Likely

6. Ridley - Metroid is a huge franchise. One rep (Samus And zamus are one rep but two characters, attack my logic!) is not enough for the flourishing games. Even in Japan, where metroid is significantly less popular, ridley is very, very well requested. He's original. He's a baddy. He's a flying, firebreathing, heavy char. His size isn't a big deal (see: bowser). He's just -in-. The same way Diddy and Dedede were before him.

7. Olimar - Amazingly original. The star of one of the most original new series since melee was developed. You can't deny how amazing fighting with pikmin would be. You also can't deny that this is a significant series to nintendo. Hello, Olimar! :D

8. Game and Watch - Ice Climbers are in. That's pretty much enough to sway me.

9. Marth- I was originally part of the NO MARTH club. But then I realized.. who will be fe rep two? Marth is hugely popular based on smash alone, but in significance in other games, he's got fairly little. I think he might be in.. but this isn't a guarantee.

10. Falco - I was also part of the no Falco fan club. But since Wolf is deconfirmed, I find a declonified falco likely. Sidekick to Fox, was popular in melee, etc.

Note here I still say no to sheik, but I'm almost swayed on that one as well. :( I hope sheik's out. She's insignificant to OOT and has a pointlessly cheap moveset. People want the moveset, not the char in brawl.

Still High Chances

11. Bowser Jr - Villain of two of the new mario games, original paintbrush based moveset, and a totally awesome smile. I'm really debating replacing him with paper mario, but eh. :(

12. Cel-Shaded Link- It seems contradictory to put up cs link and not paper mario, but I think CS Link is a YL replacement. I don't see a reason not to put cs-link in, really. The clone argument is not valid since you don't know potential movesets. yeah.

13. Megaman - Originated on NES, millions of gba games, and a very cool projectile oriented moveset. I think he's almost certainly the last 3rd-party inclusion.

14. Lucario - If mewtwo gets in, that means we have 7 pokemon from the original RBY games. That makes the 3 newere series entirely unrepresented. I think Lucario would make a better badass than mewtwo would, he's from d/p, he's qell-requested, and he's wellmarketed. Hoorah.

15. Animal Crosser - Yeah. So the icon theory suggests that AC and the touch generation need representative characters. I don't believe the theory myself, but it seems likely that a franchise of the strength of animal corssing will get a rep, anyway. Fishing poles and bug nets for attacks. Oh, boy!

Will the final smash start raining and summon a coelacanth? We will only have to wait.. assuming acer gets in, that is.

Not Exactly "Likely", but still good choices

16. Balloon Fighter - Maybe I'm biased. I -love- balloon fight. But you can't argue with the awesomeness of this character. He floats with balloons! He's nostalgia'd out (which sakurai wants). The real kicker, though, is he was planned for melee! That seems to me like a clear reason to believe he may be coming. Even further, today's update showed balloon fight is recognized, as the fish made it into "summit" stage. Even more, it almost seemed to hit that more of balloon fight was soon to come:

I feel like I’ve seen that fish before somewhere... Where could it have been?

Hinting at balloon fight. I love it!

17. Stafy -

Yeah. You've never heard of him. That's cool. He's a Japan only character, but popular anyway. Two main reasons make me suspect that he may be in brawl:

A.) He's japan only. Sakurai said that he would like some japan only characters in brawl. Stafy would be perfect for this. His game franchise looks very fun, and brawl would be a great way to introduce the U.S. to Stafy, ala fire emblem.
B.) He's unique. He may look like Kirby, but he's not. He depends on spinning his body. I can see many moves derived clearly from his games. Those games are also very popular in Japan. He's not a one game hit, either, he's starred in many. In terms of being iconic, I'm not sure a japanese character is better suited than stafy.

18. Isaac - I don't know much about golden sun, but I know it's a well liked game and that Isaac is wellliked as a character, so i'll arbitrarily include him.



That's it. Now to wait and marvel at how spot on my predictions are!

[ieatatsonic]

I'm happy if Jigglypuff and Sonic are in, though if you've played the game Drill Dozers for GBA, don't you think it'd be interesting to see Jill in Brawl?

[General Throatstomper]

I agree with most of your list. But not so much other parts of your list. Namely the parts that are wrong.

GW returning? I find this a dubious prospect, even if IC's are coming back. I'm feeling apathetic at the moment so I won't bother explaining this. Given my luck, watch GW get confirmed tomorrow.

Bowser Jr as a newcomer I like as an idea, and I wish I thought of it. Not only is SMW a huge deal, but he was in NSMB as well so it's not as though he's a dead character. The one hangback being that Sakurai would have added a whopping 6 Mario characters...which he did last game. In other words I agree with you that he has a very good chance of getting in, assuming someone better doesn't come along. Someone like Paper Mario, who does have a better chance of being playable as he's more notable. In other words I disagree with you.

Balloon Fighter? Sounds like very wishful thinking. He doesn't have much in his movepool, so even with the allusion in today's update I doubt he'll see inclusion as a player character. I wouldn't doubt an AT though.

Stafy I'd never heard of, but looking into it he does sound noteworthy. And Japanese! Therefore included by default.

Oh also random guy: Jill is confirmed as an Assist Trophy, so no dice.

[KnucklesSonic8]

I say:
- Falco - I mean c'mon. Just his name screams Brawl.. No but srsly, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in.
- Krystal
- Luigi
- Megaman
- Knuckles: He'd stand a better chance than Shadow (minus Shadow's Chaos abilities, that is.) But Shadow should get in over Tails. I mean, who wants to see Tails dropping dummy ring bombs.. again. <_< He's better off as a sidekick/assist trophy.

I don't have a lot of speculations, though, which is better as I won't be setting myself up for disappointment.
Assist Trophies:
- Dry Bones
- Blooper (he'd be JUST as annoying here as he is in MKDS)- Tails (see above)
- Silver: not very likely but it would be nice knowing his abilities from S06.

[Crowbar]

Bowser Jr as a newcomer I like as an idea, and I wish I thought of it. Not only is SMW a huge deal, but he was in NSMB as well so it's not as though he's a dead character.

Um, Bowser Jr wasn't in SMW. He was introduced in SMS. It was the Koopalings in SMW/SMB3. And I dislike Bowser Jr for pushing them out. :(

I hope Mewtwo returns. Even though he was bottom tier in Melee I still enjoyed playing as him.

[Stefan]

KS8, Tails/Shadow/anyone not sonic from the sonic series had NO CHANCE as a character.

thank you and have a nice day.

[P.P.A.]

I just saw Stefan posted Stafy! I have the third Stafy game for GBA, and it's awesome. My grandmother brought it to me from a Japan travel a few years ago.
Wario cameo ftw. Also the real fun begins once you have beaten the game. The new levels get harder and everything gets more awesome. And I still haven't beaten the second final boss. :(

[ChaoRC]

I But Shadow should get in over Tails. I mean, who wants to see Tails dropping dummy ring bombs.. again. <_< He's better off as a sidekick/assist trophy.

I count that attack as non-cannon. Check out Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Battle for a better Tails move-set.

[Crowbar]

I But Shadow should get in over Tails. I mean, who wants to see Tails dropping dummy ring bombs.. again. <_< He's better off as a sidekick/assist trophy.

I count that attack as non-cannon. Check out Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Battle for a better Tails move-set.

I endorse this.

Sonic Battle was a "meh" game but it had a decent set of moves for all the characters. I don't know why they didn't expand on some of them more in later games. Can't speak for StF though.

[ieatatsonic]

I But Shadow should get in over Tails. I mean, who wants to see Tails dropping dummy ring bombs.. again. <_< He's better off as a sidekick/assist trophy.

I count that attack as non-cannon. Check out Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Battle for a better Tails move-set.

I endorse this.

Sonic Battle was a "meh" game but it had a decent set of moves for all the characters. I don't know why they didn't expand on some of them more in later games. Can't speak for StF though.

I suggest they use attacks from multiple games such as the attack tails gets in Sonic Adventure, as well as tails's attacks from Sonic Riders.

[Stefan]

It's irrelevant because tails won't get in.

[ieatatsonic]

I saw an artical in NP that showed a screenshot of Sonic, Tails, Mario, and Link at GHZ. It couldn't be The subspace emissary becvause there were four characters. This shows that Tails is either an assist trophie, or a playable character. This also shows that GHZ will be in SSBB.

[Stefan]

Picture?

[General Throatstomper]

I very much doubt your credibility...if this were true it would be all over smashboards.

Edit: not worth a double post, but CoroCoro magazine, the same magazine responsible for giving information on 4th gen pokemon ages before anything was known is set to reveal either the starter or full roster of Brawl on December 15. The paraphrased translation of the article can be found here.

Hax man, total hax.

[ieatatsonic]

I doubt your doubt.

[General Throatstomper]

It would be great if you had half an anthill filled with reasons why you "doubt my doubt". Unfortunately you are sorely lacking in support because there is none. Let's gloss this over, maybe you'll learn something today.

I said that I doubt that you have found such a picture, as none exists, and you responded by saying, at least grammatically, "I do not believe that you doubt my claim". I'll think higher of your intelligence than some may feel is warranted and assume that's not what you meant to say. If that's what you meant to say then I'm sorry in the most superficial meaning of the word, but you have no place in society, local or otherwise.

If you in fact meant to say "I do not believe that your disbelief in my previous statement is founded given clear evidence to the contrary", then more power to you. You're better than the other you I just outlined, but only marginally. Don't be proposing a toast to that at any dinner parties because it's no large feat. You come out of nowhere and claim you've seen something that nobody else has, hiding behind the ambiguity of "some article in NP" in the off hope nobody calls you out on your propagation of probable falsehoods in the name of personal glory. The burden of proof is on you to produce this screenshot, via scanning or a verifiable source, as its existence is dubious to a tee. Tails confirmed as an Assist Trophy or Green Hill confirmed as a stage does not get you off the hook here since you're citing future events as present fact, which you can't do.

If you want to redeem yourself then good luck, there's a mountain of logic saying this is just bluster on your part. I will eat my words, a liter of vinegar as well, if it turns out this is a real picture. Until then have fun with a deserved mired reputation because contrary to what you may have been told, you are in fact guilty until proven innocent. The way good minds, real minds, work is that they make snap judgements and don't worry they may not be giving the target a fair and objective shake. So anyone that matters is pretty much against you from the start because you're saying brash things very loudly. If I were you, I would do one of three things. Either grow up, since it's very obvious you are a spring chicken no matter how much you think you're hiding it and your true mental faculties could be unlocked with age, get used to it because you may in fact be of inferior intellectual stock and not cut out to express yourself, or move on to somewhere where you will be top dog in wisdom since here you have earned no clout but in other areas could be a god among the brutish natives. What I'm telling you to do, basically, is to prove yourself, or admit you lied to get respect.

[ieatatsonic]

I'll post it, as soon as I can find the issue that I saw it in. Then I'll have proof. As for what you said, I could't follow along with it.

[ChaoRC]

@ IEAS- I happen to be a current subscriber to Nintendo Power, and if you say that you saw that photo recently, then that would be false. I have not seen said picture of Tails in Green Hill stage in Brawl. But if you have seen that photo, then it was not in Brawl, but in Melee; and that photo happened to be false and years old now.

[ieatatsonic]

Look, I know I saw the photo, NP or not NP(maybe it was a dream.....),and lately I've been scavanging around my house to find the photo.No, it wasn't a photo from Melee(Link's clothing was from Twilight Princess).I don't know where I saw it(I'm sure it was in NP)but I'm certain I saw it.

[Crowbar]

Well woopdee-fucking-doo.

[P.P.A.]

STUPID NINTENDO IS PUTTING STAFY IN ONLY AS AN ASSIST TROPHY AND NOT PLAYABLE
http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/items/assist/assist13.html

My dreams are shattered. D:
Also he looks incredibly fat in 3D.

[Stefan]

Not only are my dreams shattered, one of my character picks is guaranteed to be wrong!

this is an outrage.

[ieatatsonic]

I thought the exact same thing as I was asking myself "why did you do this Nintendo?"

[General Throatstomper]

Well my roster is looking better than yours!

(At the moment anyways...once my Felix/Isaac, Mii/Animal Crosser, Megaman/Pacman, and K. Rool nonsense hits the fan things will level out)

Anyways, it's a shame Sakurai isn't going the extra mile with making characters playable...Little Mac, Saki, and Stafy as boring AT's only kind of depresses me. These are original characters getting the shaft, which is a shame. Though you know that there will be some crazy, left-field characters that nobody sees coming, which makes up for it. If there are no 'nonsense' characters, then I full-well reserve my right to complain about how Sakurai wasn't nearly creative enough in character inclusion. Except for some lame characters/AT, like Waluigi, who just aren't interesting enough to include in the game. Speaking of which, apparently Waluigi curbstomps people he doesn't like while grinning in a deluded fashion.

Moving on...no new information was released from CoroCoro magazine today, it was all recycled information from the Dojo. No information on the full roster until January 25 guys :(

And moving on from moving on, the guitar portion of the Ice Climber song is amazing. The song itself is schizophrenic though...it can't decide whether it wants to be a slowpaced, 'epic' song or a diecore rock sort of thing.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Anyone else not surprised Waluigi turned out to appear as an Assist Trophy. I figured as much. But that was smart letting him use his moves from Power Tennis (sorta.. I'm glad they're not the same b/c his special abilities from Power Tennis were dumb).

I'm very happy about the Mario Circuit track. Not just b/c Figure 8 is my best track in MKDS, but b/c it rivals Mute City from Melee (although I never played it for more than a couple seconds, like I said I've only played Melee for 20 minutes in my whole lifetime, as surprising as that sounds XD).