[EngiNerd]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sonic4pc/index.html

I started this a couple of months ago (before I joined TSC) and finally found it again to post here.  This is a petition to Sega for the company to re-release some of the 3D Sonic games for the PC platform (if it can be called that).  The petition focuses on SA2B, ShTH and Next-Gen, with room for SSR and Rivals.  Like I said, I started it a couple of months ago, and now we're looking at Rush Adventure, Sonic RPG, Rivals 2, and Olympics, when all the PC is getting is Sega Splash Golf (yuck).  I'm posting this here because if Sega listens, it could open up the boards to greater competitions too.  I've been a PC only person due to low budget, and having already discussed with others how little I like emulators I think this is one of the only options left.  So if you're for the cause, please sign and help me out.

[douglas]

1) It's quite likely that for the 1-platform titles they've been given incentives to keep them 1-platform so as to make that platform look good.
2) Games that require non-standard input (SSR, DS games) would require a lot of work to effectively translate and would lose a lot of what makes them special.
3) Games for handhelds would look like ass compared to current PC games so would have to be sold cheap, which devalues the handheld title.
4) Who wants to play Shadow, I mean srsly.

To my mind, this leaves SA2:B and Sonic06 as the only viable alternatives.  SA2:B is old so would have to be bargain bin priced, which makes it worth less, which makes the level of effort Sonic Team will likely put in less.  Sonic06 was widely panned by critics and gamers alike, which means either they fix it and obsolete the 360/PS3 versions, pissing off those who have bought it, or they ship a port with the resulting issues and get slammed even more.  Further, it hasn't sold well at all which is likely down to both poor quality and wrong target audience for the consoles - the latter's only going to be worse on PC given the likely spec required to run the thing.

In conclusion: if rule #1 of the internet is "all the men are men, all the women are men, and all the kids are FBI agents", then rule #2  is "online petitions never achieve ANYTHING".

[EngiNerd]

I don't want to start an argument, but I just want to respond here.

1) It's quite likely that for the 1-platform titles they've been given incentives to keep them 1-platform so as to make that platform look good.

My focus for this petition is SA2(B), ShTH, and Next-Gen.¦nbsp; All of those have been released on multiple platforms.


2) Games that require non-standard input (SSR, DS games) would require a lot of work to effectively translate and would lose a lot of what makes them special.

Again, different focus, and that's primarily why.


3) Games for handhelds would look like ass compared to current PC games so would have to be sold cheap, which devalues the handheld title.

The only handheld title I suggested was Rivals, which (from everything I've seen) has graphics comparable to Sonic Heroes.


4) Who wants to play Shadow, I mean srsly.

67 of the 163 people on this site, over one third, are in the Shadow competition.¦nbsp; I wouldn't know myself how low quality Shadow is, because I've never played it.¦nbsp; I would like to play it.¦nbsp; That's why I'm hoping it comes to PC.



To my mind, this leaves SA2:B and Sonic06 as the only viable alternatives.¦nbsp; SA2:B is old so would have to be bargain bin priced, which makes it worth less, which makes the level of effort Sonic Team will likely put in less.

Couldn't the same have been said of SA1?¦nbsp; Yet SADX was released for multiple platforms (including, thankfully, PC) with better graphics and newer features (mission mode, for example).¦nbsp; Somewhere else where I posted this someone commented on how awesome it would be for SA2DX to be released simply with an internet multiplayer feature.¦nbsp; I will admit, of all the Sonic games that have never seen a PC release, SA2B is the one that I am most interested in.


Sonic06 was widely panned by critics and gamers alike, which means either they fix it and obsolete the 360/PS3 versions, pissing off those who have bought it, or they ship a port with the resulting issues and get slammed even more.¦nbsp; Further, it hasn't sold well at all which is likely down to both poor quality and wrong target audience for the consoles - the latter's only going to be worse on PC given the likely spec required to run the thing.

The thing that ticks me off the most about NextGen is the fact that it was advertised for PC yet never released for PC.¦nbsp; It may have been widely panned, but it was also widely praised.¦nbsp; I played the demo version on a Wal-Mart X360, and I feel that it's one of the best of the 3D Sonic games to be released.¦nbsp; Besides, if Sega fixes the problems for the PC, then it would take little to no extra effort to create a patch for the console versions (I think) and upload it through the live networks available.


In conclusion: if rule #1 of the internet is "all the men are men, all the women are men, and all the kids are FBI agents", then rule #2¦nbsp; is "online petitions never achieve ANYTHING".

What prompted me to start this petition was a petition concerning the Virginia Tech shootings.¦nbsp; Word was out that the infamous Westboro Baptist Church, notorious for protesting the funerals of fallen American soldiers, was planning on doing the same to the funerals for the victims.¦nbsp; An online petition was started, and it eventually convinced the church to back down.¦nbsp; Simply put, it worked.¦nbsp; Besides, one of the major things I want this petition to prove is that there is enough interest in PC ports to make the one and only thing that Sega has consistently looked for - a profit.

Again, I don't mean to start an argument with you, douglas; in fact, the primary reason I am even writing this is so people can see better where I am coming from with this petition.  Thanks for your input though.

[douglas]

Okay, the Westboro Baptist Church thing: the backing down had NOTHING to do with the petition, some radio station gave them airtime in exchange for not showing up.  They don't have an issue with people not liking them, their position is they want the whole world to hate them.

The Shadow thing was a joke, although it's sales haven't been that great.  I think it'd likely be in the same situation as SA2:B.

SADX got released on multiple platforms primarily because the Dreamcast died and Sega needed to establish themselves on other platforms, and also not so long after the original as a SA2:B release would be.  I'm not saying a PC version wouldn't be a good idea, it's more that there isn't the profit in it for Sega.  My guess is that they would struggle to get anyone to buy it except those that already bought it for another console and think it's the best thing since sliced baked wheat product, unless it was aggressively priced.

Sonic06 wasn't widely praised outside of those mags/sites owned/influenced by interested parties (Play, official console doohicks et al) AFAIK(1).  Irrespective of whether people liked it, not many people bought it, and that makes it not worth porting (or patching, in fact; really the only games that get aggressively patched are online ones to keep play rates high).  I'd say it's the most likely to be though.

In any case, the biggest selling genres for PC are RTS, FPS and RPG in that order, while consoles have many more platformer/action sales.  Further there are more younger players with access to consoles than there are with high-end gaming PCs.  Porting Sonic games to PC just doesn't make sense unless 1) the game sold extremely well and is well loved so should sell on the new platform, and 2) is relatively cheap to port (which may well be the case for 06 given it runs on the 360, but that's a guess).

In the interests of this not becoming an argument, I'll leave it here.  My point has generally been there's no profit in it, so feel free to prove me wrong with this :)



(1) Linkage for review scores:
http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/sonicthehedgehog/review.html?mode=web&tag=stats;theysay
http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/action/sonicthehedgehog/review.html?mode=web&om_act=convert&om_clk=stats&tag=stats;theysay

[Marth]

is relatively cheap to port (which may well be the case for 06 given it runs on the 360, but that's a guess).

Everything is relatively cheap to port, if you're talking about Sonic Team.
The reason, if you didn't get it, is that they do half-hearted jobs all the time,
not just on ports, but on most new games as well (going back to the '90s).

What was that about SADX? In your last post, you seemed to be considering a possible
PC port (reasons to or not to make one), as if it hadn't been made yet.


Going more toward the main point here:

-Petitions don't work.

-Sonic Team is stupid and stubborn, and doesn't care what anyone thinks.
(So even if petitions did work, they wouldn't work with Sonic Team.)

-Why not at least get a GameCube (it's cheap)? Your PC is probably way more expensive,
anyway. (And if it's not, it wouldn't be able to handle anything except SA1 or something., if even that.)

-I'm not too happy about Sonic's habit of drifting off onto other consoles, either.
First, he was GCN-only. Perfect for me. Then he went multi-platform. I'm fine with that.
But now, most Sonic games are going onto other systems. I will get a Wii sometime,
so that's no big deal. DS... it's possible. But PS3, XBox 360, and PSP? No. Unless I win one, maybe.
Plus, even the multi-platform thing is an excuse for Sonic Team to cut down on the media
used in the GCN versions of games. I don't know why (they'd probably say it's disc space),
but maybe it's to make up for the graphics and controls, which are said to be worse on XBox and PS2.

But then, Sonic's only gone downhill from SA2 to SH to ShtH to S06, in glitches and voices
and whatever else, so I've actually felt a little better about it. When I think about it,
none of those non-GCN games really matters, as long as I'm still missing one that is on GCN (ShtH).

[douglas]

is relatively cheap to port (which may well be the case for 06 given it runs on the 360, but that's a guess).

Everything is relatively cheap to port, if you're talking about Sonic Team.
The reason, if you didn't get it, is that they do half-hearted jobs all the time,
not just on ports, but on most new games as well (going back to the '90s).

Hence relatively, as in compared to other Sonic Team titles :p

What was that about SADX? In your last post, you seemed to be considering a possible
PC port (reasons to or not to make one), as if it hadn't been made yet.

If you're talking about me, I know on account of owning it :p

[EngiNerd]

@Marth: the PC was purchased by my parents for school.  I doubt I'll be able to convince them to buy a video game console, considering they have disliked video games for quite some time now (mostly, it's the "buy a $100+ console and $60+ games when we already have a PC that can play most of them for $30/$40 AND can surf the web and word process" mindset).  I mean, come on, we're talking a Gamecube just to play two games, a Wii for 3 games (they can play GCs, right?), or worse, a PS3/X360 for ONE GAME.  Hence, I have always been a PC player.  Besides, I think most consoles are ripoffs anyway (though the Wii looks pretty sweet).

And personally, I think a little suspension of disbelief is in order.  A petition means that you're hoping to change something, whether you believe it will or not.  I don't think it will change anything, but I made it because I simply would like this to come true.  If you agree, then sign away.

[Marth]

SADX got released on multiple platforms primarily because the Dreamcast died and Sega needed to establish themselves on other platforms, and also not so long after the original as a SA2:B release would be.  I'm not saying a PC version wouldn't be a good idea, it's more that there isn't the profit in it for Sega.  My guess is that they would struggle to get anyone to buy it except those that already bought it for another console and think it's the best thing since sliced baked wheat product, unless it was aggressively priced.

Then what's that about? It's like you're considering the possibility of a PC version in the future.

Antiporcupine: More like "buy a $100- console and $20- games when you have a PC that cost
like 10-15 times as much and plays some of them for a comparable price".
In Canada (which, unsurprisingly, tends to have higher prices than the US, which I'm guessing
is where you are), GCNs are usually a little over $100 (but they've been less than that),
and any Sonic game except Riders is less than $20. And there are lots of great games
that are only on GCN, and only will be on GCN (or maybe its successors)... Metroid Prime
and F-Zero GX being some good examples. But if you're really sure you don't want one
(or that you wouldn't be allowed to have one), that's fine. It's just that you might not
be able to get those games... it's a problem for me, too (or it will be, if the good games
start coming someday). I guess a petition is fine, but I can't see it working.
I saw and supported the petition to get the good Sonic actors back a few years ago.
What happened with that? (And that was a case where the majority of players were against them.
In this case, there are fewer people who care.)

I don't know. Good luck with the petition...
but you might just have to get a console somehow. I had to do that for SA1 (SA1, as opposed to SADX).

[EngiNerd]

Only wanted to point out: I regard the GCN as an EXTRA $100 because I'm going to have a PC regardless.  I mean, I'm a second-year Computer Engineering major.  A computer is kinda important for that, you know?  And even the most basic school computers come with really decent graphics capabilities (for all the art/new media majors out there).  I didn't realize, though, that the game prices were so low.  Anyway, here's the spread:
GCN - $100
SA2B - $20
ShTH - $20
Total - $140 FOR TWO GAMES.  I don't even know if that includes the memory card or not (probably does).  I could try to find others I'm remotely interested in, but those would come few and far between.  Heck, I don't even like Mario games.  (except maybe Smash Bros., so 3 games for $160 - still harsh)  It's just, no matter what people tell me about it, I can't justify in my own mind getting a console.

[Marth]

Yeah, I know what you mean. You have to get a lot of games before the system is worth the money, and that can be hard
if there aren't many games that you're interested in.  (Or if you can't find the games you would buy. All of those are problems
for me with the Dreamcast. 5 used games for $80.) I could make some recommendations if you changed your mind, though.

About the pricing, I wasn't including a memory card, but the GCN should be less than $100 new (or under $50 used),
and a 251-block card (good for a moderate-sized game collection) is $20. Oh, and though it doesn't matter to you,
I just thought I'd mention that even Riders is under $20. That completes the GCN Sonic collection. (All Canadian prices.)