Sonic Central > Rules Revisions
New Games Are Up, But OLD Rules Remain Ambiguous
KnucklesSonic8:
--- Quote from: Thorn on January 29, 2007, 02:59:50 pm ---And for S1GBA, there's always one idiot, so better safe than sorry, etc.
--- End quote ---
True.
Marth:
--- Quote from: Thorn on January 27, 2007, 05:55:23 pm ---S3&K:
* I had always assumed that you could end an act anywhere but needed to start at the correct start for a character (i.e. no three-second IC2). The newest IC2K record uses Sonic's start. Can this somehow be written into a rule to make it clear that it's legal?
* From what I've seen, rings uncovered by the Act 1 finish sign count towards either act. This really needs to be said...
* I've been told that a Launch Base 2 shortcut in Sonic & Knuckles Collection is forbidden since it's blocked by invisible walls in the original. It's already banned as a "functional change in level layout", but since it's an invisible solidity object that moved and not the level layout, it could use mentioning.
* Balloon Park's balloon-per-lap rule establishes Freestyle, but disallows a perfectly acceptable method. I wouldn't begin to know the correct wording, though.
Sonic R:
* Grand Prix and Time Attack are both acceptable modes for Three/Single Lap records.
That's all I remember, although I'm sure there's other things we hit on in the last few months. Please say anything that needs to be said.
--- End quote ---
What's this about Launch Base? Isn't that the same as a GCN advantage in Sonic Adventure?
Like how that invisible wall in Final Egg was removed (before the 8-second runs). Why would it be banned?
Also, speaking of Sonic 3, isn't there some weirdness about Hydrocity? The capsule can be hit, but
the timer doesn't even freeze, and the screen doesn't fade out, or something. Has that been settled yet?
^Tied in with that is Sonic Adventure. Sonic can die or get trapped after hitting the capsule.
This can be a huge annoyance (Final Egg on Dreamcast) or a huger-than-huge annoyance
(Sky Deck on either system). Unlike in Hydrocity, the timer does stop, meaning that it's easy
to keep track of the record, and the only problem is that the game doesn't return to the Character Select.
Obviously, times gotten like this (with Sonic getting stuck, at least, or maybe even if he dies)
will have to be allowed if the Hydrocity times are. This problem is many months old.
Also in Sonic Adventure are the unlimited ring rules. Why are the unlimited rings tricks being
banned one at a time. Make a rule which states that no tricks that could be used for unlimited rings
are allowed. Or, just ban the levels that have gotten broken (if everyone knows, and there's no competition).
And finally, there's the E-102 thing. The current rule is dumb, and it's not being enforced, anyway.
If nothing can be worked out, just go back to no rule at all. I don't know exactly what to do about
Dreamcast, though. Just allow the maximum for a version advantage?
Hey, SadisticMystic, how did you get a time comparable to GCN times, anyway?
I thought it just stayed at the "maximum" (of just under 100 minutes) for almost half an hour.
magnum12:
I still like my proposal for the Hot Shelter Issue. It's extreme, but its the best way to save what would other wise be one of the most broken levels in TSC competition.
-Rule: You may not hit any switch more than three times. (Can be changed to three consequtive times.) This rule accounts for accidental shots to make it easier to enforce. This rule alone might not enough since the GC version is still super broken, so a no permanent time freeze glitch rule might be nessecary.
-I agree that we should have a universal "no unlimited ring techniques rule for all ring divisions".
SadisticMystic:
The Launch Base over-the-top trick only works on a rather obscure version of the game, and is both predated and postdated by versions of the game which behave similarly and don't allow that path. Think along the lines of "Why can't I use S1GBA to submit to S1 charts?"
The problem with "don't use unlimited ring tricks, mmmkay?" is it's rather vague what that actually means. Is any use of anything that can provide endless rings prohibited (in other words, "If you're not taking unorthodox paths for Lost World S, you don't even get to compete on that chart" among other things)? Is it limited to the default 1 repetition? What's a repetition? Currently you can use Speed Highway bells to get 5 hits:15 rings. Would "1 repetition" mean you would only be able to get 1:5?
In E-102 Hot Shelter, the variable cap on minutes is different across systems. Just as you can have 100 or more lives and only have it display as 99, so too (on Dreamcast) can you rack up a timer of 100 or more minutes, at which point it says 99:59.99. The limit on minutes is a signed (why?) byte, or 127. This would just be a simple version difference, except that if you complete the level with 100 or more minutes, there's nowhere at all where the full time is displayed. Either the initial 1 is truncated, the whole time is sent down to 99:59.99 for display, or the minutes go down to 99 with the seconds unchanged depending on where you look. But because one of the displays simply truncates the 1, it's clear that the time is read internally as 100+.
At this point, my inclination for Hot Shelter is to scrap the chart entirely, much like Casinopolis S doesn't have score or ring charts.
Marth:
--- Quote from: SadisticMystic on February 04, 2007, 10:49:16 pm ---The Launch Base over-the-top trick only works on a rather obscure version of the game, and is both predated and postdated by versions of the game which behave similarly and don't allow that path. Think along the lines of "Why can't I use S1GBA to submit to S1 charts?"
The problem with "don't use unlimited ring tricks, mmmkay?" is it's rather vague what that actually means. Is any use of anything that can provide endless rings prohibited (in other words, "If you're not taking unorthodox paths for Lost World S, you don't even get to compete on that chart" among other things)? Is it limited to the default 1 repetition? What's a repetition? Currently you can use Speed Highway bells to get 5 hits:15 rings. Would "1 repetition" mean you would only be able to get 1:5?
In E-102 Hot Shelter, the variable cap on minutes is different across systems. Just as you can have 100 or more lives and only have it display as 99, so too (on Dreamcast) can you rack up a timer of 100 or more minutes, at which point it says 99:59.99. The limit on minutes is an unsigned byte, or 127. This would just be a simple version difference, except that if you complete the level with 100 or more minutes, there's nowhere at all where the full time is displayed. Either the initial 1 is truncated, the whole time is sent down to 99:59.99 for display, or the minutes go down to 99 with the seconds unchanged depending on where you look. But because one of the displays simply truncates the 1, it's clear that the time is read internally as 100+.
At this point, my inclination for Hot Shelter is to scrap the chart entirely, much like Casinopolis S doesn't have score or ring charts.
--- End quote ---
The obscurity is probably the only thing that would count. The newest version of SADX
took out glitches, didn't it? (I don't know if it removed shortcuts, though.) But fair enough.
I didn't mean to remove the individual ring rules. They'd stay along with the general rule, to support it
and, of course, lessen or eliminate vagueness. If there's no rule, you can expect me to abuse
any new trick I can find, and temporarily get into an easy first place. But then, it gets harder to find good
glitches of any kind, and it's possible that there aren't anymore new ways of getting unlimited rings.
I knew about all that weirdness and the different displays of the time from what you said before,
but unless I'm missing something, there's no way to get GCN-level times on a Dreamcast, besides
waiting until the time is around 100 minutes before attempting to beat Zeta. Is that what you did?
The only other way to get a lower-than-max time (not counting the case in which the 1 is cut off
to make the record look worse than it is) is to use the time which uses the correct number of seconds
(the level clear screen, I think), and that one can be manipulated. (Wait until it's about to
show a "59" before destroying the final cannon, and you've got a 99'58"-- or 99'59"--.)
It looks as if the best options are (in order):
- Allow both versions, and Dreamcast players can add 100 minutes to what's shown on the stage select.
- Use the 3 consecutive hits rule.
Did I forget one option? I feel like I did, but I can't think of what it is. Maybe those are the only options.
Anyway, a chart only needs to be deleted completely if there's no competition.
There's nothing wrong with Hot Shelter, besides that it's broken, but so's just about every stage.
I don't see several players tying for first (anything easily maxable), or competing simply to
see who has the most patience (like in Casinopolis-Sonic).
Or is the problem something about proof? This isn't Cyberscore. The records can be proven
with a recording or screenshot taken at the stage clear screen, which is no different from playing
the original StH on a real Genesis. And I have records that aren't saved on my file, for different reasons.
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