Author Topic: Sonic Heroes - Team Blast Glitch [Resolved] (updates in first post) (Read 67759 times)

yse · « **Reply #30 on:** December 07, 2006, 09:16:17 am »

STAY ON TOPIC PEOPLE.

If you've ever wondered why nothing gets done with this issue, now you know.

Okay regarding Chaotix rings. I would prefer if people actually built up their team blast meter normally, but since Thunder Shoot among other things builds up the meter even if it doesn't hit anything, that's not going to happen. (To be honest this is what I was more concerned about when I said to scrap Chaotix rings, not the randomness, so all the BS regarding "lol remove all randomness from the site" doesn't apply.)

So we're left with the decision to make people build it up slowly or quickly. Both give the same result rings-wise, but my concern here is, if TBG is allowed it'll end up leaking into the score charts and we don't need to see that. That was why I proposed the removal of the entire rings chart. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RANDOM FACTOR.

Also I find this highly apt.

[01:08:41] <Rolken> so the argument boils down to
[01:09:02] <Rolken> "we're talking about tbg. one aspect of tbg happens to be random. all this other stuff is also random. IF YOU BAN TBG YOU MUST BAN RANDOMNESS"

Blame SBW for making the connection. :/

*flees from the inevitable barrage of weaponry*

magnum12 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 07, 2006, 12:03:48 pm »

In regards to TBG for rings and Chaotix scores, I'll have to disagree. Really meticulous RAing and good time bonuses are usually incompatible with each other. The only level where I could see a potential problem is in Final Fortress (Chaotix). Then again, the enemies there are worth big points anyway, so even with your time bonus at 0, you can expect a score of at least 83000+ if you take out every enemy in optimal comboes.

yse · « **Reply #32 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:19:58 pm »

Nobody said you had to meticulously RA to get on the ring charts...

Spinballwizard · « **Reply #33 on:** December 08, 2006, 01:45:14 am »

What.

Okay not once in my only post in this topic (before this post, obviously) did I mention the word "random."

I mentioned luck, because I do believe the number of rings given by each enemy is randomly determined from among 5/10/20. (I haven't played Heroes, let alone as Chaotix, in a while, so don't take my word on that.)

I may have been misconstrued, as all I was saying is that it's fairly easy, given a lot of enemies in an area and having a TB ready, to almost fully charge a TB by using the rings from that TB. (This naturally only happens with Chaotix, as the other teams' gauges slowly deplete over the effect of their TB.) Anyways, I'm leaning towards the off-topicness.

* Spinballwizard launches air strike against mike. A10 Warthogs cover the general area with napalm.

</originalcommand&conquerreference>

Anyways, as to TBG's effect: TBG makes what I said happen quicker, and it makes up for the rings that don't fully fill the gauge.

I didn't really say much about score charts, but I just thought of how bad it can get with Sonic:

Step 1: TBG
Step 2: Make sure you're on Sonic, TB.
Step 3: Mash the jump/attack combo near more enemies.
Step 4: Repeat.
Step 5: ...
Step 6: PROFIT!

...Yeah, that's probably all the input I give because as I said I don't really TBG.

sonicam · « **Reply #34 on:** December 08, 2006, 10:29:59 am »

Spinny, it's on luck because it's random... You even said it yourself, it's the randomness that determines wheither you get 5/ 10/ 20 Rings.

On the account that it's too "easy", no matter what, if you are RAing a Chaotix stage, you will use TB on every enemy in the stage, if you don't, you won't get the record. Simple as that. Sure you'll get lingering Rings from some enemies until the gauge is depleted, but it's the same as using a TB on it. Nothing changes.

TBG doesn't make up for anything but quickness. It makes stages a lot more tolerable. Why play a 30+ Chaotix stage and ring run it and in the end find out you are like 100 Rings off the record? It's not fun, there's no skill at all so why not make something that's grueling a little be better?

Mike, on the account of it leaking to other things, well, unfortunately we aren't able to see everyone play. People may use TBG, wheither it's banned or not just to get on the rankings (but not necessarily get the record). Rule breaking it evident to some people, I know you want to minimize it as much as possible, but you have to understand, Chaotix rings is ridiculous. :/

PsyBorg · « **Reply #35 on:** December 18, 2006, 07:59:44 pm »

BLETHARG.

Under maiku's request, here are all the stages I used TBG on:

All dark stages
All robot swarm bosses (includes all of them)
Egg Albatross (Sonic)

yse · « **Reply #36 on:** December 18, 2006, 08:04:28 pm »

Bear this in mind when deleting times:

According to the forum and a heap of Metal Madness submissions, TBG was first revealed to TSC on the 14th of February, 2004. It therefore goes without saying that times before this are unaffected by the glitch.

KnucklesSonic8 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 26, 2006, 01:14:26 pm »

http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_heroes/times/seaside_hill/dark <- Obviously TBG'd.

Just a reminder. ;)

Groudon · « **Reply #38 on:** December 26, 2006, 01:23:49 pm »

ks8: You forget This one?

magnum12 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 26, 2006, 03:01:21 pm »

-I thought I revealed those ones as being influenced by TBG. Oh well, removing them will be on my "to do list".
Edit: I just realized something. Since the primary reason we're talking about banning the TBG is because of its broken effects with Team Dark's TB effect (i.e. you can freeze the clock for practically most of the level by spamming TBG), does it set the precedent for banning the use of glitches that achieve the same net effect? (Natural effects that manipulate the clock would not be affected, only glitches that do so would be effected.)

yse · « **Reply #40 on:** December 27, 2006, 06:07:43 am »

There's a marked difference between a glitch at a specific point in one level (and LB2K isn't even a glitch) versus a glitch which can be applied quite literally anywhere in the game.

KnucklesSonic8 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 08, 2007, 03:51:31 pm »

Anyone else but me sick of smizzla's stats? They're obviously TBG'd and they [he/she] don't seem to be doing anything about any of them. Can we do something about that?

yse · « **Reply #42 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:17:40 am »

You've had enough time. Now that I have the power, I'm deleting all TBG'd stats.

EDIT: I think I've got them all. Somebody point me or someone else towards any I may have missed. If I've knocked one of your times out, replace it with one that's legit. You know the rules.

EDIT2: I'm also keen to see a ruling on the use of TBG for Chaotix rings. Opinions to be put forth here.

sonicam · « **Reply #43 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:37:53 pm »

Agh, you bastard mike, why'd you have to do this, you're making it really hard for me to keep my promise and stay away from Heroes. D:

Just keep TBG banned for divisions that are affected by times. This applies for Times, Bosses, Extra and Scores; unaffected by Rings. You will never know when someone TBG'd Rings or not; you can implement the ruling and you'll never be able to tell if a person TBG'd or not, honestly, it doesn't even matter if they did. Forcing vids is even more stupid since no one would want to sit down and watch 30 minutes Chaotix ring runs, nor actually tape them. Honestly Mike, banning TBG from Chaotix rings is just ludicrious. If you need a proper rule, just use this or something similar:

TBG, also known as the Team Blast Glitch, is banned from all competition in Sonic Heroes that is affected by Times (including the Time stat as well as the Time Bonus). The affected divisions are Times, Extra, Bosses and Scores. Any record acheived from using TBG will be void except for Rings.

Poor wording, but you can get the jist.

Groudon · « **Reply #44 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:42:51 pm »

It's simple. Putting the ban on TBG for Chaotix rings is lame, since it just takes longer to finish the level with all the thundershooting that needs to be done.

eredani · « **Reply #45 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:27:15 pm »

Onryou have also used TBG for several of his times, along with the boss ones. His Dark time total is strangely his best one, and I'm willing to bet that he used TBG for most of his Dark times. For a list: Times > Final Fortress > Dark 6:50:24, Mystic Mansion > Dark 5:29:93, Bullet Station > Dark 6:24:21, Extra > Ocean Palace > Dark 4:03:63. I'm a bit uncertain regarding which other times he have used TBG on, because he doesn't really have that many good stats to compare to.

Most of videogamemaster777's Dark times are much better than they should be compared to his Sonic times. For example his Bingo Highway Dark time is 5:31:98, which is 12 seconds faster than with Team Sonic even though it should be slower, and his Lost Jungle Dark is 50 seconds faster than with Sonic. I think it's safe to assume he used TBG for his times.

For Chaotix Rings it should be allowed to use TBG, as it isn't abusive if no advantage in stats is gained by using it. You can get the exact same Ring counts with or without TBG, and the only difference is in the amount of time that's spent in the stage, but the time/score result is irrelevant when Ring attacking. An exception to this is Final Fortress Chaotix, as the point total for comboing every enemy can exceed what you would normally get with time bonus, and Power Plant Dark, where the increased point total besides time bonus can also be larger. Using TBG while RAing those stages to finish faster and get more combos could give you a higher score than would otherwise be achievable even with a larger time bonus, and that score would obviously be invalid under the rules.

Auriman1 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:50:38 pm »

Just throwing this idea out in the open: No Team Blast for Chaotix RA (not limiting to TBG).
It seems like that's what most people imply when they say no TBG in Chaotix rings. That way, there'd be no more issues with TBG or wasting time, Chaotix rings would stay, and the annoying team blast factor would be eliminated. If I remember correctly, there's nothing you actually need team blast in order to accomplish for any given level in the game (except in Metal Sonic's perfect form). I realize that would mean wiping out all current Chaotix ring stats, though, which I'm sure some would disagree with, but it seems like the best choice in the end...

What are your opinions on such an action?

sonicam · « **Reply #47 on:** January 25, 2007, 06:01:18 pm »

Bad idea. There is nothing wrong with using Team Blast for Chaotix Rings. The only issue is that the rings you get are random. However, if this is the reason for removal, then SADX and SAdv1 and 2 would have to go due to the ? boxes. The only reason Mike feels that TBG should be banned from Chaotix Rings is for consistancey and the fact that TBG might leak into other stats. Put up the rule I said in my last post (and perhaps on the Sonic Heroes Submissions screen) and problem solved.

yse · « **Reply #48 on:** January 25, 2007, 06:57:11 pm »

Okay, ruling amended. TBG is permitted for rings only.

KnucklesSonic8 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:49:40 pm »

http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_heroes/extra/final_fortress/chaotix <- JB apparently has used TBG. It's possible other stats of his has used TBG.

yse · « **Reply #50 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:51:27 am »

As of this post James Bertolli is on notice. I've deleted the stat in question and others may follow.

Super Azrael · « **Reply #51 on:** January 31, 2007, 11:42:37 am »

I say "All random Rings outside Target Switches and '?' Monitors DON'T count". FAIR.

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #52 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:09:59 pm »

there are no random ring counts besides with what you do with Chaotix's TB.

Dustin-Dusty1980 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 01, 2007, 05:07:13 pm »

Quote from: magnum12 on December 04, 2006, 11:25:45 am

-That list is pretty good. I think you should add Ocean Palace and Hang Castle to the Extra Chaotix missions section, since stealth missions probably could benefit from TBG.
-As far as my times go, here's what I used it on. (I think I mentioned these before though.)
Seaside Hill: Both Dark missions.
Ocean Palace: Both Dark missions.
Grand Metropolis: Both Dark missions.
Egg Hawk: Dark
Egg Albatross: Sonic, Dark
Robot Carnival: Dark
Robot Storm: Dark
Egg Emperor: Dark (My 47 second time is legit.)
Metal Madness.

Yeah!Pretty is a good list,eh?

amyrose918 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 25, 2008, 07:54:32 pm »

if theres anything weshould have TBG for, its the max ring missions. anything where time and score are not what you are aiming for. espicially the team chaotix ones.

Selphos · « **Reply #55 on:** May 25, 2008, 07:57:13 pm »

« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2007, 03:07:13 PM »

FEBRUARY 1 2007.

DsSaster · « **Reply #56 on:** May 25, 2008, 08:11:34 pm »

Quote from: Pidgey on May 25, 2008, 07:57:13 pm

« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2007, 03:07:13 PM »

FEBRUARY 1 2007.

lol

Ring Rush · « **Reply #57 on:** May 25, 2008, 08:30:12 pm »

Not to mention TBG is allowed for chaotix rings.

Though I do agree it should be allowed for sonic/dark/rose rings, but iirc there is a different NOT AGES OLD topic for that.

EngiNerd · « **Reply #58 on:** May 25, 2008, 09:22:32 pm »

Oh fred. This isn't just a bump, this is taking a longtime wound and ripping it open again. Do you have ANY IDEA how long this was argued about?
Sigh.
And, RR, it's not allowed for most things because it (as a glitch) makes the game easier. Why is it allowed for Chaotix rings? Because otherwise, players trying to hit a ring record would most definitely SIT THERE AND CHARGE UP THE TEAM BLAST FOR EVERY SINGLE ENEMY. That's just plain nonsense. So it's allowed for that reason only. At least, that's what I recall the ruling being.

Selphos · « **Reply #59 on:** May 25, 2008, 09:24:40 pm »

Fred? You know this guy?

Sonic Heroes - Team Blast Glitch [Resolved] (updates in first post)

The Sonic Center > Forum > Sonic Central > Leaderboard Disputes > Rules Revisions > Sonic Heroes - Team Blast Glitch [Resolved] (updates in first post)

Author Topic: Sonic Heroes - Team Blast Glitch [Resolved] (updates in first post) (Read 67759 times)