Author Topic: The official TMMC discussion topic. (Read 71588 times)

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #30 on:** October 30, 2006, 12:56:10 am »

what about full gameplay runs?

sonicam · « **Reply #31 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:02:59 am »

Hmm, yes, 100% completion runs are missing, but there needs to be guidelines for all the games.

X5: Acquisition of all 8 stage Heart Tanks (excluding Hearts earned by bosses), 3 SubTanks, 1 EX Tank, all forms obtained (excluding Ultimate X/Black Zero), and completing the game. Parts is a problem since you are never able to obtain all the parts in one playthrough, there are 16 parts in all, yet you can obtain a maximum of only 8 and doing so defeats the purpose of a speed run, so exclude parts. Thoughts?

X6: Same as above, but obtaining all the Reploids. Maxxing out Souls? I'm thinking and hoping no. ;x

X7: ???

X8: ???

MMBN1: 1000 HPs and 100% chips (200 chips?).

MMBN2: 1000 HPs, 250 chips (excluding the secret Gospel chips), 50 MB, HubStyle obtained (?????) / All 5 stars.
MMBN2 Hard Mode (I forgot about this): Same as above??

MMBN3: This game is a problem since it comes in versions and there are Navis not present in each version. Blue has Punk and BowlMan and White has MistMan. All 7 stars?

MMBN4-6: ???

MMZ series: What would you consider 100%? All Elves?

Power Battles/Fighters: N/A

Powered Up: ???

What's also missing is the S-Rank speedruns for the Zero series. I dunno if you ruled that out cuz of redundancy. If so, let me know.

For the X series, there are problems however for what divisions they would be. When I made charts for Cyberscore, like forever ago, it was broken up into the difficulty levels as well as character I think, but that's just too much. What do you think we should do about this? Like, what I mean is should we have a division for Xtreme mode - Zero alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - X alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - Any combination - Game completion. See how there are going to be a lot of divisions for the game? It's going to get annoying playing the same game over and over to get all the stats in. Maybe we should make a fine line for number of divisions. I'm still kinda on the fence on what to do. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Another problem with MMBN is that there are chips and thus stars that require link play. If you don't have anyone willing to speed through battles with you waiting for chips, this could be a problem and you have to be able to battle link play in order to get MMBN2 Hard Mode. What should we do here?

EDIT 2: lol, good thing Rolk didn't keep what he said true, that TSC4 and the new centers would come pretty soon over the last few months or we'd be in trouble. :D Let's use this time wisely.

magnum12 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 30, 2006, 05:10:48 pm »

Quote from: sonicam on October 30, 2006, 11:02:59 am

Hmm, yes, 100% completion runs are missing, but there needs to be guidelines for all the games.

X5: Acquisition of all 8 stage Heart Tanks (excluding Hearts earned by bosses), 3 SubTanks, 1 EX Tank, all forms obtained (excluding Ultimate X/Black Zero), and completing the game. Parts is a problem since you are never able to obtain all the parts in one playthrough, there are 16 parts in all, yet you can obtain a maximum of only 8 and doing so defeats the purpose of a speed run, so exclude parts. Thoughts?

X6: Same as above, but obtaining all the Reploids. Maxxing out Souls? I'm thinking and hoping no. ;x

X7: ???

X8: ???

MMBN1: 1000 HPs and 100% chips (200 chips?).

MMBN2: 1000 HPs, 250 chips (excluding the secret Gospel chips), 50 MB, HubStyle obtained (?????) / All 5 stars.
MMBN2 Hard Mode (I forgot about this): Same as above??

MMBN3: This game is a problem since it comes in versions and there are Navis not present in each version. Blue has Punk and BowlMan and White has MistMan. All 7 stars?

MMBN4-6: ???

MMZ series: What would you consider 100%? All Elves?

Power Battles/Fighters: N/A

Powered Up: ???

What's also missing is the S-Rank speedruns for the Zero series. I dunno if you ruled that out cuz of redundancy. If so, let me know.

For the X series, there are problems however for what divisions they would be. When I made charts for Cyberscore, like forever ago, it was broken up into the difficulty levels as well as character I think, but that's just too much. What do you think we should do about this? Like, what I mean is should we have a division for Xtreme mode - Zero alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - X alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - Any combination - Game completion. See how there are going to be a lot of divisions for the game? It's going to get annoying playing the same game over and over to get all the stats in. Maybe we should make a fine line for number of divisions. I'm still kinda on the fence on what to do. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Another problem with MMBN is that there are chips and thus stars that require link play. If you don't have anyone willing to speed through battles with you waiting for chips, this could be a problem and you have to be able to battle link play in order to get MMBN2 Hard Mode. What should we do here?

EDIT 2: lol, good thing Rolk didn't keep what he said true, that TSC4 and the new centers would come pretty soon over the last few months or we'd be in trouble. :D Let's use this time wisely.

-For X8, full completions is all parts, all the unique chips purchased (for all 6 playable characters), and unlocking all 3 unique character forms. You have to play the game twice in order to get them all since Zero's final weapon requires completing Normal mode to unlock hard mode which is needed to get the weapon. I'd say finding all the elves is a 100% completion of the Zero games.
-In regards to difficulties, I agree that having so many based on difficulty would annoy players greatly in terms of submitting all of the stats. I think just having normal mode is a good idea for player convienence and for a uniform standard that's easy to enforce.
-I didn't include S ranked Zero runs because they would be very hard to verify without a video. However, I personally think the idea's great, especially for informal contests like the one frequently done in TSC the forums.
-I haven't thought of anything for the other issues yet.
-I forgot Legends had stuff for competition. That's great since it brings our number of availible games up to 22 (compared to TSC's 26).
- I was thinking of adding the mini games from Zero 3, but I'll need to do some more research on them first.

sonicam · « **Reply #33 on:** October 30, 2006, 05:42:42 pm »

What do you think of the Battle Network stuff?

Also, yea, more Legends stuff soon, also, it can be 23 if we include The Misadventures of Tron Bonne. I'll do some research on that game as well.

yse · « **Reply #34 on:** October 30, 2006, 06:06:37 pm »

Full completions of games should be better left to SDA. We're not about that.

sonicam · « **Reply #35 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:13:39 pm »

Hmm, yea, I guess that's a good point, but a lot of MegaMan games usually give you a time at the end when you finish the game at the "Thank you for playing" screen, Sonic doesn't do that so we don't track those, but if you guys are against it, then ok.

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #36 on:** October 31, 2006, 02:30:21 pm »

I'm for full gameplay runs if they track time. 100%, 0%, any %...doesn't matter to me.

magnum12 · « **Reply #37 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:49:36 pm »

If the game tracks it, I say its worth recording (unless it becomes too difficult to verify). In regards to BN, I'm not sure if I can make a good judgement call about some of the issues since I'm a fish out of water when it comes to that series. (Where is our BN expert when we need him?)

sonicam · « **Reply #38 on:** October 31, 2006, 05:16:43 pm »

I don't think he's an expert on this issue, I think he cares most about the newer Battle Networks and me just the opposite, but I can't think of what to do.

sonicam · « **Reply #39 on:** October 31, 2006, 05:30:19 pm »

Ok, sorry for the double post but I got some more information for Legends.

MegaMan Legends
Game Completion (Times): Easy, Normal, Hard (there is significant differences between difficulties)
Races (Races): Straight Course, Left Curve Course and Technical Course. (all must be done on A difficulty)
Mini-Games: Balloon Fantasy (Times), Beast Hunter (Scores) [all must be done on A difficulty].

Legends 2, I can only think of Game Completions, there are minigames but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

yse · « **Reply #40 on:** October 31, 2006, 09:56:20 pm »

Quote from: sonicam on October 31, 2006, 01:13:39 pm

Hmm, yea, I guess that's a good point, but a lot of MegaMan games usually give you a time at the end when you finish the game at the "Thank you for playing" screen, Sonic doesn't do that so we don't track those, but if you guys are against it, then ok.

Oh, right. I wasn't aware of that.

In that case it's fair game. (I demand this be set as a precedent for Sonic the Fighters. :D)

PsyBorg · « **Reply #41 on:** November 01, 2006, 10:00:24 pm »

I'm not really an absolute expert on deck building in 4-6 or anything, but I sure know a lot about the games and could do well if I tried hard enough.

aaaaanyway.

4: pretty much getting to Black Earth 2 and beating bass SP with all chips possible for that version.
4.5: This game can sort of have a "complete run". First off, you'd have to max all of the characters' stats (very, very, very unlikely), get EVERY chip (insanely difficult), and... well... that'd be it. I guess you could beat all of the bosses or something, but actually having a "complete run" of the game would mean you either hacked or just wasted your whole life on this one game.
5: see info for 4, replace Black Earth 2 with Nebula Area 6.
6: Falzar SP/Gregar SP destroyed. This would be so because doing that requires you to pretty much complete the game anyway.

Anyway, yeah, so yeah, um yeah. That's all.

magnum12 · « **Reply #42 on:** November 06, 2006, 08:15:44 pm »

Since TUSC is trying to find out who would be interested in competing, I'd also like to ask who would be interested in TAing Mega Man games (asides from myself, sonicam, Psyborg, and Shadow Jacky) at TMMC when it begins. Speaking of which, I need to incorporate the stuff from legends and game completion divisions for the X and Zero games into the charts.

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #43 on:** November 07, 2006, 03:07:08 am »

if anyone is interested, SDA has 2 runs of MM: Powered Up.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/mmPoweredUp.html

magnum12 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:59:48 pm »

I just updated the charts for Legends, added the completions and did an overhaul of Powered Up to add in Roll, Proto Man and the 10 different boss attack challenges. I'll post the new chart soon (up to version 1.5). I also pulled off a sub 1 minute time for Guts Man's level (Old Style).

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #45 on:** December 02, 2006, 09:40:35 pm »

this may not even happen, but would using The Wily Wars for MM1-3 be counted for?

I played the rom of it and just playing some stages were some differences already, but it felt kinda clunky and also the mega buster is crap towards robot masters when starting fresh (took way too long to kill Flash Man with it).

magnum12 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 02, 2006, 11:05:07 pm »

As promised, here's the new charts. I'll post an updated weakness guide for the classic MM series, the original MMX series weakness guide, and the MMZ beginner's guide later.
-In regards to Wily Wars, does it keep track of times/scores/etc.? How many shots did it take to destroy Flash Man? In the hard mode, it (I think) should take about 14 shots with the buster to take him out.
-Edit: Update for the Zero series. You may not use Cyber Elves. On the subject of MMZ, I just realized something important. In missions where you are supposed to destroy certain objects/ rescue people/ hit switches, you can get a fast time by skipping the mission entirely. Should we allow that or should we require that you fully complete such missions?

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2007, 08:55:44 pm »

maybe this should be revived since its under this board now.

TMMC needs recognition if its going to succeed.

magnum12 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 08, 2007, 04:11:03 pm »

I'm still uncertain about the MMZ issue, but I'm leaning towards a ruling that states: "In missions that are applicable, you must resuce all hostages, destroy all targets, etc." I'll need come comments from those who play the Zero series. (This applies to several missions in Zero 2 and 1 mission in Zero 3 that I can think off right now.)

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #49 on:** April 08, 2007, 06:28:03 pm »

I say you should only do it if you have too.

the only one that comes to mind is that one mission in Z1 where you have to save everyone before fighting Maha Garansheriff (or however you spell it)

KnucklesSonic8 · « **Reply #50 on:** April 10, 2007, 06:24:30 pm »

So how are you guys coming along? You still have a couple of things to iron out?

magnum12 · « **Reply #51 on:** April 10, 2007, 10:25:08 pm »

We're coming along pretty nicely. We recently decided to ban cyber elves because of their game breaking effects (especally ones that cut boss health down). The only issue left to settle is the following: In some stages in the Mega Man Zero series, there are missions in which you're supposed to destroy certain targets, rescue hostages, press switches, etc. It is possible to pass the goal and kill the boss without actually doing the mission, which costs you points in the mission part of your score and defeats the point of the level. The question is if we should allow mission skipping or require that you take out all the targets?
-Missions Affected: (From memory)
--Mega Man Zero 2:
1. Forest of Dysis (Hyleg Ourobockle)
2. Computer Zone (Poler Kamrous)
3. Power Room (Phoenix Magnion)
--Mega Man Zero 3:
1. Childre Inarabitta
--Mega Man Zero 4:
1. Artificial Sun
2. Airconditioned Park (Pegasolta Ekrehl)
-There are no affected stages in Z1. The hostages one is Blizzard Stageroff. Phantom has a mission with similar mandatory mechanics IIRC.

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #52 on:** April 11, 2007, 12:11:04 am »

3. Power Room (Phoenix Magnion)

I thought you had to destroy all of those generators to even fight him...

1. Childre Inarabitta

is this the only one where it actually affects the stage? I find it easier if you didn't lower the lower.

I still say to skip the missions if you can, they are only good for ranks.

sonicam · « **Reply #53 on:** April 11, 2007, 12:37:10 pm »

I disagree with that. We already made charts for MMZ, we said that one would be Time Attacking (any Rank) and other would be S-Ranking (TAing but you must have an S Rank/ 95-100 points total since MMZ2 uses an averaging system). Since in order to get an S-Rank, just about all objectives would have to be done to get the full 20 Mission Objective points. All in all:

Time Attack: Rush through the stage as fast as possible, only concern is defeating the boss/ getting Mission Complete.
S-Rank: Abide to Mission Objectives, don't get hit a lot, no Elves, etc.

EDIT: Heh, ok, I just saw SJ's new post. :x Yes, I agree with him.

magnum12 · « **Reply #54 on:** April 11, 2007, 03:54:43 pm »

It seems the last issue has been settled. On a side note, I think sub 2:50-2:40 in the Copy X stage (MMZ3) is possible. I got 3:08 with a relatively cautious run through the stage and boss (mostly the boss, I was slightly cautious in the stage). Would have been much more aggressive if I had a sub tank on that file. Probably should have used the boomerang instead of the gun as my secondary weapon. I personally find attack type B controls to be the most reliable for speed running since you can store multiple charges at once.

magnum12 · « **Reply #55 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:14:35 am »

-Now that the guidelines for management are up, we have to come up with an idea for the skin. I was thinking of something like this: An image of classic Mega Man, classic Proto Man, Bass EXE (not really different from original Bass), X, Zero (MMX form), Harpuia (ZX form), and Phantom (MMZ form) bursting out of a fiery explosion with a screen shot of an iconic Mega Man stage in the background. I'd like to hear your inputs for a good site skin idea.
-This just in. Mega Man ZX Advent has just been announced. This game takes place several years after ZX. The human forms can actually fight this time. The central bio metal this time is Model A who fights with two guns (cough, Axel) and has a special homing attack similar to a 2D version of E-102 Gamma's missiles. You will be able to absorb the DNA of bosses you kill (yet again, one of Axel's powers). So far, I've seen a flaming deer and an ice turtle.

Shadow Jacky · « **Reply #56 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:50:04 am »

-an evolutionary chart of megaman himself from the NES days to now....if thats possible due to the different games and timelines

-guardian skin with Copy X at his throne and the guardians bowing before him (I also seen this sweet pic of the remaining guardians bowing to the real X after the events of Z4)

-a pic of the inside of Dr. Light's house with Dr. Light, Megaman, Roll, Auto, Eddie, Rush, Beat, and Protoman (how odd that would be for him to be there), either posing for a pic or acting naturally

I got a bunch that I can think of, but I wouldn't be able to make them myself as I dont know how.

magnum12 · « **Reply #57 on:** April 15, 2007, 01:08:42 am »

I like the evolutionary progress idea. Has potential for some clever stuff. Here's the way I see it.
1987 (Awful box art)-->1989 (Classic Mega Man)-->1994 (X)-->1996? (3D Mega Man)-->2000 (Mega Man EXE)--> 2002 (Zero)-->2006 (Model X).

KnucklesSonic8 · « **Reply #58 on:** April 15, 2007, 04:43:33 pm »

Congrats on becoming established guys. All the best to ya.'

edit: Question: Did Rolken set you guys up to become established. Did he do all the conversion stuff or did you guys have to do that yourself? I'm really stuck in a bind as I'm ready to launch my sub-site but I really don't know how to go about doing that, really...

magnum12 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 05, 2007, 10:31:11 pm »

We got set up to be established. We're looking for more members here at TMMC. Anyone want to join us? We're getting bored with just 4 people (I haven't been able to compete that much with the very last few weeks of school coming up and graduations myself) around.

The official TMMC discussion topic.

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Author Topic: The official TMMC discussion topic. (Read 71588 times)