[Thorn]

^Sorry, you'll hafta make a note in the PM, because it's a pain in the ass for me to mess with my web space.

Does this mean I can send it now?

Personally, I think it's ready.  It went from having about 20-some discrepancies (Shuffle games, Super Hard Mode, etc...) to one or two(Shuffle main game ring/emblem divisions).  It's okay with me if you send it, question is, will you?

[KnucklesSonic8]

EDIT: Sent it everyone! Here's the FINAL DRAFT:

As you may know, I am the creator of a very popular topic on the “Information Kiosk” board entitled, “New Competition Suggestions” and I have suggested many new ideas for competition on TSC. Below are the members involved in helping me with these proposals:

RPGnutter, Thorn, F-Man, mike89, SadisticMystic, blueblaze, douglas, magnum12, Marth, PsyBorg, Groudon199, Shadow Jacky, eredani, eggFL

I will now introduce all proposals found within our topic, then, I will proceed to discuss each of them in greater detail.

Existing:
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic Riders
Sonic Advance 3
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Battle

New:
Sonic the Fighters/Championship
Sonic Shuffle

Hopefully, by listing the proposals, I have captured your attention. Now, I shall proceed into discussing, in detail, more about each of the proposals and I thank you for your undivided attention thus far.

Proposal 1:
Game – Shadow the Hedgehog
Proposals – 1
Shadow Jacky, Groudon199, eggFL, PsyBorg, F-Man, RPGnutter, eredani, magnum12, blueblaze, Thorn. (10)
First Member to Suggest – Shadow Jacky, Groudon199

Although I, personally, will not be participating in any divisions from this game, I still feel that this new division for Rings should be included for competition. For one, as you probably may have noticed, not many are competing in Shadow the Hedgehog as they used to as indicated by two things: (a) the lack-of-frequency to which new stats are submitted for the game, and, (b) Groudon199’s signature announcing that he’s tired of participating in the same old competitions and he’s tired of being the only one competing. By implementing this new division, more members will naturally want to try to participate in the game more since the Rings Divisions are usually quite popular on the site. The Rings Divisions for this game would consist of a division for each level. Although some stages have a maximum number of rings that can be obtained, it’ll be quite challenging to achieve that maximum score. As seen by the structure of the proposal as well as the need for the division, I can tell this new proposal will work out well! You’d be making a wise choice by implementing this division for it will certainly challenge even members who are quite good at the game, and it will prove to be an, all-around good competition for members to participate in.

Proposal 2:
Game – Sonic Riders
Proposals – 4
Supporting Members – knuckles_sonic8, eggFL, Shadow Jacky, RPGnutter, PsyBorg, Thorn. (6)
First Member to Suggest – knuckles_sonic8

I am very confident that all of the above proposals for Sonic Riders will enhance the level of competition for the game. Sonic Riders seems to be a quite popular game on the site. Frequently, you will see either a new member participating for the first time or existing members improving their previous results and submissions. The proposal that will enhance competition for the game the most would be divisions for Mission Mode. It’s the fact that  pure skill is involved and the variety of challenges found in this mode that makes me feel very strongly about this. Just as noteworthy is the Survival Battle Mode. Competitions would entail members striving their best to defeat all 3 computer opponents in the fastest time possible across 3 different tracks. Personally, I can see the Space Theatre stage causing a bit of trouble for competitors, since it seems to be more luck-based than skill-based in my opinion so maybe it should not be added, but, then again, you may have a different point-of-view and that is perfectly fine (I didn’t include it in the Divisions List; you can if you like). We have also proposed divisions for Tag Mode. This could also work quite well: you must work with your computer partner to reach the goal, but, if a person goes too fast, they won’t get anywhere – instant competition! I am not as confident with this proposal as I am with Mission Mode but I still think members could have an enjoyable time with these new divisions. The final proposal for the game is for the Survival Race Mode. Now, I understand that getting a good time on this will be difficult, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing! The amount of difficulty in getting a good time in this mode would truly make for great competition, indeed. However, I can see one area, or flaw, where things may get a little “iffy”, if you will. I don’t know if you’ve played this mode before but once you complete the game with the required number of points, the clock still continues another 5 seconds (this is also true in the Survival Battle Mode) for some strange reason. I have two solutions: (a) We can make a rule of adding 5 seconds to whatever our final time (tedious, if you ask me), or, (b) we can live with the 5-section deduction and still submit our times. Partly based on what some members have said, I feel the Second Solution would be a more effective choice, but, again, it is your choice in the end. You will not be sorry if you include these new divisions. I am very confident Sonic Riders will have more participation from the members on the site if they were included.

Proposal 3:
Game – Sonic Advance 3
Proposals – 2
Supporting Members – RPGnutter, knuckles_sonic8, F-Man, Groudon199, eredani, blueblaze, mike89, Thorn (8)
First Member to Suggest – RPGnutter, knuckles_sonic8

As you know, the inclusion of the three Sonic Advance games on the site for competition has gotten many members to participate. However, I am speaking from experience when I say that there are some who have trouble getting in the top ranks in Sonic Advance games, particularly the Times in Sonic Advance 3. Thus, implementing a new Rings Division would surely receive much support because, like I said before, these divisions are quite popular amongst members. A new division for rings would surely motivate more members to participate in the Sonic Advance 3 competition. This division would involve all stages, with all 3 acts for each stage. Such a division will surely be great competition. Also, implementing a Time Division (maybe Extra?) for the Enemy Bonus Games would also be a good choice. In this bonus, you must defeat all the enemies in the stage within the time limit. This bonus game actually proves to be quite challenging so it’ll be interesting to see the times members will come up with. These two new proposals, especially a Ring Division, will surely make Sonic Advance 3 a greater competition on the site.

Proposal 4:
Game – Sonic Heroes
Proposals – 2
Supporting Members – knuckles_sonic8, Thorn, magnum12, mike89, Shadow Jacky, eredani, blueblaze. (7)
First Member to Suggest – knuckles_sonic8, Shadow Jacky

Sonic Heroes is another game where a majority of members on the site participate. The Times and Ring Divisions are equally popular as are the Score and Extra Divisions. However, it has come to the attention of both me and some other members that there are no divisions set aside for the Extra missions for Team Chaotix. As you can see from the participation of many members, the Chaotix missions are quite popular. Not only that, but they entail a lot of skill, leading many to believe that competing in these divisions of Sonic Heroes are quite competitive, indeed. Thus, by implementing score divisions for the Extra missions for Team Chaotix, you will find that this will surely please many members who have been trying to get these competitions on the site for quite some time. These missions will involve the scores that will be recorded in 10 different divisions. 4 stages have been removed because the missions basically add a Time Limit and, so, adding a new division would be, as one member said, “redundant”. You will not be sorry in implementing this, what will surely be a competitive division. Also, all over the forums, many members have apparently urged others to approach Administrators to add Special Stage divisions found in this game onto the site - it’s of little wonder why; the division would be greatly beneficial to the competition! You cannot deny the fact that many would love a Special Stage competition for Sonic Heroes. Special Stages are very competitive, not to mention popular, in other games on the site. Both Bonus and Emerald Special Stages will prove to be very competitive divisions. There are 7 stages for Bonus and 7 for Emerald each played with a different team – Teams Sonic, Dark, Rose, or Chaotix. On that note, since there is not a large difference in the speed capacities of Team Sonic and Team Dark, we’ve decided to combine the two into one sub-category as opposed to 2. We have also decided to make a division called “Most Links” whereby competitors can submit their best link combo they have ever received on any Special Stage. Finally, a total to add up all the scores (excluding the “Most Links” category). Make no mistake! Making this into a competition will surely attract many members and it will help Sonic Heroes to receive much more participation from participating members on the site.

Proposal 5:
Game – Sonic Battle
Proposals – 1
Supporting Members – knuckles_sonic8, magnum12, sonicam, F-Man (4)
First Member to Suggest – magnum12, sonicam

This proposal is actually fairly new which is why not many members have demonstrated their support on this proposal. Nevertheless, for Sonic Battle, we have proposed new divisions that will surely enhance the amount of participation that goes into the game. Since there is only a Score division, members can easily get tired of continually participating in a single division, especially when (a) they have scores on all available categories, (b) they  have gone as high as they possibly, and (c) the Score division can be tedious at times. The new competition we are proposing for Sonic Battle is a Time division. I think this proposal is, not only a great idea, but also, an idea I feel confident will be successful. The times will be done in Challenge Mode and divided this way: Character/Difficulty/Stage. This new proposal will definitely be successful, I’m sure. The amount of participation that goes into Sonic Battle will surely have an evident increase, not to mention, the great competition that will occur by implementing a Time division.

I really appreciate you not being the close-minded on these issues, not to mention, being very patient with me during this lengthy message. The next two proposals are new games, both suggested by, yours truly, knuckles_sonic8, and I speak on behalf on quite a few members when I ask that you do not reject these new ideas right away without giving it some thought. These new proposals will definitely by excellent additions to TSC. They are as follows:

Proposal 1:
Game – Sonic the Fighters/Championship (GC)
Proposals – Stage Times, Final Clear Time
Supporting Members – knuckles_sonic8, RPGnutter, Thorn, F-Man, mike89, douglas, magnum12, Marth, PsyBorg, Groudon199, Shadow Jacky, blueblaze. (12)
Total Number of Divisions – 11

I never thought this game would be so great! This game is certainly one to remember and it’s great that it’s finally being featured on the home console! This game definitely is competition-worthy on the site. I am confident that some of the same competitors that participate in other games featured on Sonic Gems Collection such as Sonic CD and R would be thrilled to participate in divisions for this game. There is certainly a lot of competition to be had from this game since it tests your skill without any luck-based flaws or anything of that nature. Certainly, this is a game that deserves a place on the site. The divisions would consist of 10 stages, with sub-categories of 8 characters, plus a division where members can submit their best clear time in a division entitled, “All”. Members will surely get a ‘kick’ (or a punch) out of participating in the competitions for this game!

Proposal 2:
Game – Sonic Shuffle (DC)
Proposals – Stage Rings, Stage Emblems, Mini-Games, Precioustones
Supporting Members – knuckles_sonic8, RPGnutter, Thorn, F-Man, mike89, SadisticMystic, blueblaze. (7)
Total Number of Divisions – 61

I can confidently say that by bringing Sonic Shuffle to TSC, there will be much competition, participation, and, not to mention, fun! Now, you may think that because of the rarity of the game, Sonic Shuffle should not be added to the site. But, Sonic Shuffle kind of reminds me of Knuckles Chaotix – a game not many members have, yet, filled with challenge and variety. Sonic Shuffle has a lot of potential as far as competition goes. The entertaining mini-games have a lot of competition-potential as they all range in divisions of Rings, Scores and Times, and they are all different, making the competition have a lot of variety. They are definitely competition-worthy for they are good tests of both skill and endurance: for instance, the mini-game, “Croc-Attack” has players press the A Button repeatedly to escape the jaws of a crocodile within the time limit. Speaking from experience, even ‘button-mashers’ will find this mini-game to be quite difficult, as is the case with many other mini-games, showing that skill is definitely needed for a member to be successful in these challenges. In addition, even the Story/Versus Mode stages can be quite competitive as well as far as collecting Emblems, Precioustones, and Rings go. Mind you, these competitions may not be as exciting as the mini-games are but you can see that this game has a lot of variety to offer for those who are willing to participate. Surely it deserves a place on TSC (I was surprised it already wasn’t on the site when I first joined). Don’t make the mistake of ignoring the proposal. Rest assured, Sonic Shuffle has a lot of variety for the members on TSC that will prove it to be a very good competition.

Thank you once again for your patience. To help you with whichever competitions you do decide to implement, I have compiled a list for each game as to all of the divisions you would need to add as well as additional rules you may need to add. They are in the link below, provided by "Thorn":

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenxvu2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/divisions.doc

NOTE: Some divisions/miscellaneous things may be missing in some sections (they may or may not be updated into the document by the time you read this PM):

SONIC RIDERS (Divisions):
Wave:
-White Cave, 5 [Score Mission]
-Sky Road, 5 [Time Mission]
-SEGA Illusion, 3 [Score Mission]

SONIC ADVANCE 3 (Rule)
Special Rules:
-You cannot spend more than 10-minutes on a single level.

SONIC BATTLE (Rule)
Special Rules:
-All times must be done in Challenge Mode.

SONIC BATTLE (Rule)
Special Rules:
-All times must be done in Challenge Mode.

SONIC SHUFFLE (Divisions)
Header: Scores

* Below divisions have sub-categories: Most Emblems, Most Precioustones.

Emerald Coast
Fire Bird
Nature Zone
Riot Train
Fourth Dimension Space

*Next few have no sub-categories.

Sonic the Thief
Sonic Slot [Note: A lower score is a person's goal, not a higher score.]

Header: Times

* Some divisions have sub-categories, indicated in parenthesis.

Stop and Go
Great Escape
Sonic Tank
Wrong Way Climb [T]
Manic Maze [Score]
Gargantua [Sc]
“” [T]
Eggbot's Attack [Sc]
Croc-Attack
Total

SONIC SHUFFLE (Rule)
Special Rules:
-ALL submissions must be made with Computers on a Normal Difficulty. If on Easy or Hard, or if you play with another human player, your submission will not count.
-Submissions for Stage Rings can be done in either Story or Versus Mode. However, in Story Mode, Rings collected in the Final Mini-Game do not count towards your final score.
-Submissions for Precioustones and Emblems can be done in either Story or Versus Mode. However, in Versus Mode, you must play with 7 Precioustones.
-Getting a Forcejewel does not earn you extra rings.
-Ring records for mini-games are to be taken using the total given at the Results Screen in the Toy Box. Story and Versus mode submissions are acceptable, as long as they account for the extra 10 rings that are given in the Toy Box.
-Ring records for Board Clear Mini-Games can only be taken from Toy Box.
-When competing in Time Divisions, it is the number of seconds left on the timer you complete the game with.
-No 'auto controllers' are allowed.
-When competing in “Team” Mini-Games, the submission will not count if you get knocked out.


Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

___________________


I thank you very much one final time for listening to what I have to say. I truly do appreciate it. Thanks for your extended attention and patience. Whatever you decide to do, I’ll just be happy even if you just reply to me letting me know what the final verdict is. I know it’ll take a while to think this through – take your time. I just hope you will acknowledge all of our proposals and I truly hope that you will implement them. I strongly look forward to hearing a reply from you. Thank you once again.

~knuckles_sonic8

[Thorn]

Timeline of New Competitions Topic:

• July 18: knuckles_sonic8 (henceforth called ks8 in this post, for simplicity) opens the topic, questioning why certain games aren't competed in.  I pitch in my two sense, genus/blueblaze calls him an ignorant necromancer and states why this topic won't go anywhere, F-Man supports Shuffle mini games, RPG makes two one-line posts punishable under  TSC's Constitution
• July 19: ks8 notices the support, decides to focus on Shuffle (a personality trait carried over from the GFaqs board).  My doubt of the topic lessens slightly, I pull my Wiki mini game list, and divide them by division (is tweaked later).
• July 20: A big day!  mike89 vouches for Sonic the Fighters / Championship competition, and douglas supports the same game, although he is unsure about per character split.  magnum12 disagrees with douglas, and proposes more Heroes competition.  RPG suggests Rings competition for Sonic Advance 3.  ks8 questions how to approach an admin with competition requests, I tell him to get more support first because the rules are all over the place.  He and I have an on-board convo, I move it to PMs.  Psyborg and Groudon199 vouch for Fighters competition, ks8 makes a list of board members that approved of each competition.  F-Man applauds ks8's and the board's dedication to the cause, then expresses surprise at the sheer number of posts that day.
• July 21-22: Rules are straightened out.
• July 23: I start Fighters/Shuffle competition via BBC table.  This is followed by a three-day break, and I think the topic flopped.
• July 26: ks8 returns and sextuple-posts.  I ask him about the MODIFY button.  More rules are tweaked.
• July 27: mike89 tells ks8 off for being too headstrong with bad rules.  I wake up drowsy and think I'm being told off, then snap to my senses.
• July 28: SadisticMystic posts, proving that he has Shuffle.  ks8 says, "Forget what people say. If I had, I wouldn't have come this far," as his title reads "Ignorant Necromancer", so I roflmao.  SadisticMystic says that he would add the games to TSC if he knew how.  I teach ks8 how to make a BBC table.
• July 29-August 17: No real advances for the cause.  Random BSing and competing is ensued.  Some rules are tweaked, Mean Bean Machine is suggested then ditched.  genus switches his stance and supports the topic.  Riders is suggested.
• August 18: mike89 notes that this topic is bigger than the Top 10 topic.  I leave for vacation.
• August 19-27: I miss every post while I'm away.  More random competing and BSing.
• August 28: Upon return, I realize that Rolken will be busy with TSC4 soon, and that the time is now.  I message ks8 and he quickly gambits for more support.
• August 29-September 4: Rules are changed, quick last-minute competing is done.
• September 8: After a silence in the topic, I post and say to present the topic to Rolko ASAP.  F-Man asks to see some last-minute details.  ks8 begins to write the PM.
• September 10: Rule tweaking
• September 12: ks8 posts the PM.  I ask if I can use it for my Senior Research Paper, as it's well over the character limit.
• September 13-14: Suggestions pour in, like red pen marks from a teacher.
• September 15: The PM is sent, we sit here and wait, I make this timeline.
  

[KnucklesSonic8]

Hey thanks! That was nice of you to do that. Now everyone can see how far we've all come.

[Groudon]

With the addition of the Rings division, I will finally have enough competition to get back into playing it, like my sig now says.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Thorn:

For some reason, I added a division I wasn't supposed to: Splash Canyon, 5. Can you remove it for me? Also, can you put in this special rule for Riders:

"When submitting in divisions for mission-based categories, you must reach the goal for your time to count."

Thanks

[yse]

Oh, you have to be kidding.

I forgot something!

Special Stage rings for the Sonic Advances and Rush!!

>_<

[Thorn]

^I don't know why we don't just sit down one day and list every special stage that should be in.  There's really no reason not to add most of 'em, except maybe Sonic 3D because there's 14 Genesis, 7 Saturn, and 7 PC stages.

Thorn:

For some reason, I added a division I wasn't supposed to: Splash Canyon, 5. Can you remove it for me? Also, can you put in this special rule for Riders:

"When submitting in divisions for mission-based categories, you must reach the goal for your time to count."

Thanks

By this point, I think Rolken's already seen the message, especially since I checked the "Who's Online" page once and saw that (no, I wasn't spying, just lucky timing).  If the idea goes through, then we can mention that.  At this point, it's more or less all the concepts that we're looking to have addressed.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Don't worry about it; I'm sure other divisions will come up in our minds as we anticipate the results.I'm sure, like Thorn said, we can present them to Rolken later if we wish.

[Groudon]

I forgot something!

Special Stage rings for the Sonic Advances and Rush!!

There's a trick in Rush's special stages, where you pause the game and move the stylus to where you want Sonic to go, then unpause and Sonic immediatley moves there.  This isn't really fair, and it will be very hard to find out who uses it.  So no Rush special stages.

[Bilan]

Its just a simple case of banning the use of the pause menu while in the special stage. Similar rules are enfocred elsewhere, so this shouldnt be a problem.

[nitsuja]

There's a trick in Rush's special stages, where you pause the game and move the stylus to where you want Sonic to go, then unpause and Sonic immediatley moves there.  This isn't really fair, and it will be very hard to find out who uses it.  So no Rush special stages.

That isn't much of a trick, you can just take the stylus off the screen and put it somewhere else and get the same result. Sonic doesn't teleport there, he just moves quickly like normal. So it's just normal pause abuse (although it may be so easy to use in this case that it should be disallowed for the sake of competition, I don't know).

[Groudon]

Yeah, but it's more precise to do it while paused.

[nitsuja]

Yeah, but it's more precise to do it while paused.

So is almost anything else in any game... But I can see the point that the problem is magnified when you're controlling the stylus position instead of regular controls.

[Taillow]

Oh, you have to be kidding.

I forgot something!

Special Stage rings for the Sonic Advances and Rush!!

>_<

I brought up Advance 3 special stage rings long before anyone else in this post...

[Crowbar]

Honestly, Rush special stages are pointless. The pause trick makes it so easy to get a perfect score that there'd be no competition, and you can't simply disallow it because there's basically no way you can tell.

[nitsuja]

and you can't simply disallow it because there's basically no way you can tell.

Since when has that stopped anything? I see lots of rules on the rule page that you can't tell if they were followed besides asking for video proof or something.

[KnucklesSonic8]

He brings up a good point.

Side note: Isn't it funny that NOW other people are joining in/posting their thoughts.

[Groudon]

I think on one of the other pages (don't feel like going through 24 pages of posts), someone did bring up Rush special stages, but it wasn't discussed enough.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Oh, really? I don't recall. I also don't recall the SADVC3 Spcl Stage rings being mentioned either but it could've slipped by me.

[Groudon]

Well, there are so many posts here, it's hard to remember what wasn't in a huge list.

[KnucklesSonic8]

^^ Yeah, that's true.

Well, everyone, I appreciate everyone's loyalty to this topic despite the sending of the PM days ago. I know you are all anxious to find out the results but, alas, no news yet. I promise, though, if I do get the privlege of getting a PERSONAL Message, I will share it with all of you immediately.

I am doing my best to check the site everyday just in case something does happen. Keep your fingers crossed everyone.

[Shadow Jacky]

I think I can finally get on here without anymore problems.

so looks like I missed the finalization.  Well I hope all goes well, maybe then I'll have a reason to come here besides the forums and checking for vids.

[Groudon]

I think the only reason I'll play Shadow anymore is just to RA the levels, since I seem to have worsened after a long SA2B period.

[KnucklesSonic8]

I think I can finally get on here without anymore problems.

so looks like I missed the finalization.  Well I hope all goes well, maybe then I'll have a reason to come here besides the forums and checking for vids.

No probs, SJ. I hope so too. And that's good it'll give you a "reason" to come back. :P

[Shadow Jacky]

well I didn't mean like that KS...it'll be better than when I didn't come in here for months on end.

also groudon, thats what I felt like when I got back into Heroes as I didn't think I could improve anything.  I may give shadow another shot, but just for RAing and nothing else

[KnucklesSonic8]

Oh, okay I see. Bad misinterpretation, I guess. :P

And I kinda know how you both feel; I hardly play Heroes anymore, like you SJ, only to mention one.

[Groudon]

It's pretty amazing.  This topic went from one person saying it won't go anywhere:

It can you ignorant necromancer. If TSC covers every Sonic game that can be competed in, then we become a scaled version of Cyberscore. We draw large floods of undesirables who only are interested in a particular few obscure games, and lose our personality for it. And as always, why compete when few will play?

To a topic with almost 100 more posts than the Top 10 TSC Players topic.  The topic's come a long way in just 2 months.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Aww! Shucks...

It has been a while; we've come a long way, for sure. That's great news!

[KnucklesSonic8]

Ding! The light bulb goes off!

I was thinking, why don't we list potential divisions for Next-Gen games as they get closer and closer to release! We can jsut do it here in this topic, since it still fits and everyone's familiar with it already, anyways.

Whaddya say, guys?

Rivals
Secret Rings
Next-Gen (2006)